阿道夫.希特勒于1939年9月入侵波兰 Adolf Hitler invaded Poland in September, 1939,
发动了第二次世界大战 starting World War II.
到了1942年冬季 By the winter of 1942,
他的军队在俄国的大雪中饥寒交迫 his armies were freezing and starving in the snows of Russia,
而他最好的将军死于心脏病 where his best general had died of a heart attack,
此时美国也参战了 and America had entered the war.
第一次 希特勒提出的千年帝国之梦 For the first time, Hitler's dream of a German empire
开始变得让人怀疑 to last a thousand years was in doubt.
当他频繁更迭将领之时 While he hired and fired generals,
冬天越来越冷了 and the winter grew colder,
15名军政要员 15 of his officials
奉他之命由各自的机关前往 were ordered from their commands and ministries
远离战火纷飞的 to meet in a quiet lakeside residence
前线到柏林万赛地区 in Wannsee in Berlin,
的湖畔召开会议 far from the crisis at the front.
在不到两小时内 In two hours,
这些人永远改变了世界 these men changed the world forever.
只有极少数会议记录得以保留下来 Only one record of what was said and done here survives
它们来自于“千年帝国” from the wreckage of what was
的废墟之中 the Thousand-Year Reich.
历史上此次的会议速记员应是一名女士 她是艾希曼的秘书兼速记员：莱格博格.维勒曼
有多少纸带？ How many rolls?
够4小时用的 长官 Enough for 4 hours, sir.
莱格博格.维勒曼并未出现在会议的官方记录中 历史学家们将她称为“隐形的第十六人”
太多了 Too many.
有两小时就够了 Two hours' worth should be sufficient.
我们的盘子还够吗？ Do we have enough?
摔了多少了？ How many fell?
我确定我们的库存一定够 长官 I am sure we have a sizeable inventory, sir.
你确定还是你知道？ You are sure or you know?
我知道 长官 I know, sir.
统计损失 让他赔 Itemize the cost. He pays.
另外交份报告给我 Make it a separate report to me.
还有不要再让我见到他 And keep him where I don't see him.
笑一笑 Smile.
多好的一天啊 It is a fine day.
是的 长官 Yes, sir.
好了 都放精神点 All right then, let's look smart.
希特勒万岁 Heil Hitler.
拉脱维亚没有这么安静 这儿太安静了 No silence in Latvia, no silence like this.
这里比柏林还好让你吃惊了？ You're surprised it's better in Berlin?
希特勒万岁 希特勒万岁 Heil Hitler. Heil Hitler.
我们见过 旗队长 We've met, colonel?
确实 我们见过 Indeed we have.
我是国务秘书布勒 I'm State Secretary Buhler.
没错 你就是 Indeed you are. I do remember.
尚伽茨旗队长 Colonel Schongarth.
长官 Sir.
兰格二级大队长 Major Lange.
希特勒万岁 Heil Hitler.
先生们 有任何需要尽管吩咐 If there's anything any of you gentlemen need,
请不要犹豫 找警务员或者找我 please don't hesitate to call an orderly or me.
我很感激选中这个地方的人 My appreciation to the man who picked this spot.
是海德里希总队长选的 That would be General Heydrich.
这古典时代的 Beautiful house,
老房子真漂亮 from a more elegant time.
我在克拉科夫的办公室有消息来吗？ Have there been any messages from Krakow, my office?
没有 长官 No, sir.
那么 我们去哪？ So, where do we go?
二级大队长远道而来 The major has come a long way.
他应该喝上一杯 The man deserves a drink.
这边请 各位 This way, gentlemen.
这里有你们要的酒水 I'm sure you'll find the wines,
大家尽管开怀畅饮 有的是一流好酒 and, of course, we are not limited to the wines, first rate.
是啊 这鬼天气让人喉咙发干 Yes, the cold will dry your throat.
喝点 来根烟 Drink, a smoke.
真不错 Excellent...
把签到薄拿走 Put this book away.
长官 Sir.
这地方就不是为开会 It was not built for this purpose,
而建的 not for meetings.
这地板对靴子不合适 These floors are not for boots.
这是私人住宅么？ It was a private home?
是的 私人住宅 Private home, yes.
谁的？ Whose?
据说以前是某犹太佬的 We believe it was owned by a Jew.
我们有些争议 There's some dispute.
我们党卫队的旅行很考究 Well, in the SS we travel deluxe.
一向如此 Always.
我们当之无愧 Well, we've earned it surely.
并不是每个人都这么想 Not everyone agrees.
希特勒万岁 Heil Hitler!
希特勒万岁 希特勒万岁 Heil Hitler. Heil Hitler.
希特勒万岁 Heil Hitler.
这破车跑起来像该死的卡车 It's running like a damn truck.
他们说传动带和火花塞换过了 They claim that they've replaced all the belts and the plugs,
但听起来像水泥搅拌机一样 but it sounds like a cement mixer.
有人能来看一下么？ Can someone here check?
我连自己说什么都听不见了！ I can't hear myself think in there.
希特勒万岁 希特勒万岁 Heil Hitler. Heil Hitler.
啊 这才像话 Ah, the east is well represented.
而我们捷足先登了 And we're here first.
希特勒万岁 Heil Hitler.
见过兰格二级大队长 他累坏了 Meet Major Lange, a very tired man.
还没有 拜托 我正在享受这里的环境呢 No, please, I am enjoying these surroundings.
请问到哪儿能找艾克曼一级大队长？ Where can I find Colonel Eichmann, please?
跟我来 长官 Sir, follow me, sir.
艾克曼？ Eichmann?
希特勒万岁 Heil Hitler.
抱歉打扰了 Excuse the interruption.
一级大队长 Colonel.
这是我建议的备忘录 My memorandum of recommendations.
我还有另一份复印件 I have here another copy in the circumstance
海德里希总队长希望更新它的内容以便 General Heydrich would like to be refreshed of its contents,
维持秘密警察 for the sake of maintaining harmony
与外交部的协调 between the Gestapo and the foreign office.
我是这样想的 Um, that was my thought.
好 Yes.
邀请参会的名单有什么变动吗？ And are there any changes to the list of the invited?
没有 No.
就是说连克里琴格博士也会来咯？ Oh, so even Dr. Kritzinger will be here?
是的 Yes.
嗯 他不会开心的 Yes, well, he will not be happy.
在这儿了 你现在好么？ Um, here we are, and how are you?
很好 谢谢 Very well, thank you.
我保证会把这些给总队长看的 I'll make sure that the general sees these.
那总队长什么时侯到？ And when will the general arrive?
他随时可能着陆 He should be on the ground any moment.
希特勒万岁 Heil Hitler.
希特勒万岁 希特勒万岁 Heil Hitler. Heil Hitler.
希特勒万岁 Heil Hitler.
可以帮您拿外套吗 长官？ May I take your coat, sir?
还有您的帽子？ Your hat?
我是纽曼 四年计划部门主管 Neumann, director, Office of the Four-Year Plan.
四年计划 先生 Four-Year Plan, sir?
是啊 你好么 纽曼？ Oh, yes. How are you, Neumann?
除了一直拍马屁还感到吃惊 斯图卡特博士 Well, I'm always surprised and flattered, Dr. Stuckart,
您竟然认得我 that you recognize me.
对此我一直很感谢你 And I'm always thanking you for saying so.
纽曼 四年计划部门主管 Neumann, director, Office of the Four-Year Plan.
斯图卡特博士 Dr. Stuckart.
希特勒万岁 欢迎您 长官 Heil Hitler. Welcome, sir.
希特勒万岁 谢谢你的欢迎 Yes, yes, Heil Hitler. Thank you for the welcome.
我猜海德里希总队长还没来 General Heydrich not here yet, I expect.
我猜对了吗？ Am I correct?
是的 长官 Yes, sir.
他就好耍大牌 He loves a grand entrance, yes?
在可能在哪儿开银行吧 ...running a bank somewhere by now.
我理解他的用心 I understand the purpose,
可我不知道他要计划什么 but no idea what the man might propose.
这会议到底是关于什么的？权力？ What are meetings about? Power.
不 巩固权力 No, consolidation of power, no doubt.
我们会从中受益的 We should benefit by that.
克里琴格 幸会 Kritzinger, a pleasure.
我很高兴你能来 I'm pleased you're here.
病态的好奇心啊 Morbid curiosity.
我们已经解决这个问题了 We have settled this question.
我也是这么想的 So I thought.
在聊什么呢？ What has been discussed to this moment?
什么都聊 除了莫斯科的战况 Everything except the fighting in Moscow.
我听说我军在反攻 Oh, I've heard we are counterattacking.
赖歇瑙已经把友军拯救出来了 Richenau's got them out of the trenches and on the move.
赖歇瑙死了 Richenau is dead.
让我们别再像村妇一般风言风语了 Let us not gossip like maids at the market.
寒冬把我军拦住了 是时候面对现实了 We are stalled for the winter. Time to face reality.
希特勒万岁 Heil Hitler.
艾克曼一级大队长在吗？ So, is Colonel Eichmann here?
在 长官 Yes, sir.
去告诉他 克劳普佛来了 Tell him Klopfer has arrived.
其他人呢 And the others?
纽曼 四年计划部门主管 Neumann, director, Office of the Four-Year Plan.
戈林的人？ For Goring?
帝国元帅戈林 是的 是他的部门 For Reichsmarshall Goring, yes, his office.
您呢？先生 And you, sir?
卢瑟 Luther.
嗯 你这是什么计划来着？ And what is your plan?
你认为四年之后我们会在哪里？ Where will we be in 4 years, do you think?
住在白宫里么？ Living in the White House?
希特勒万岁 Heil Hitler.
欢迎 长官 Welcome, sir.
你们在这儿安排的不错啊 You are very well fixed up here, I think.
我想是的 Yes, I think we are.
我因为一个简报而来迟了 I'm late because of a briefing.
我们有个将军想要占领莫斯科 We have this general who is now trying to capture Moscow,
但他从来没指挥过一个旅 who has never commanded one damn brigade.
我得听完简报 That is what I've been hearing
也是我因此而来迟的 and that is why I'm late.
没关系 长官 Not at all, sir.
有啤酒吗？ So, is there beer?
有的 Yes.
还有男卫生间在哪儿？ Er, and where is the boys' room?
我已经从总督那里得知了 I have been briefed by the governor general
他关注的要点和预期形势 regarding what concerns, what anticipations.
那是机密 That is private.
我们都将会发现我们的党卫队朋友的脑子里又冒出了什么新概念 We will all discover what new concepts our SS friends have in mind.
尚伽茨！ Schongarth!
不错的法国酒 Not bad for French.
纽曼 Neumann, director,
四年计划部门的主管 Office of the Four-Year Plan.
我很荣幸能来这儿 I'm very pleased to be here.
二位阁下怎么称呼？ Who may I be speaking to?
这些法律非常复杂 It is very, very complex, these laws.
在他们身上花了已经很多时间和精力 A lot of time and thought has been put to them
而在场的某些人.... and some of these here,
你要明白所有的党卫队都几乎 well, you notice all the SS,
对法制没有丝毫概念 they have little idea of what is lawful
即便对自己所知也没有任何尊重 and no respect for what they do know.
这些人肯定不行 对他们来说 Oh, certainly not these gentlemen.
法律就像冰淇淋 To them, laws are like ice cream.
轻易就融化了 Easily melted.
我猜 I suspect--
这就是为什么要召开这个会议 I suspect that is why this meeting,
为什么我的下属部门 which is under my department after all,
要听命于党卫队 is being called by the SS.
你知道吗？ Do you know?
只有这次的会议邀请能看出些端倪 Only what the invitation suggested.
他们总想着开会 They always want to meet.
党卫队喜欢开会 The SS love to meet,
他们总是想要更多 and they always want something more.
就算他们拥有一切 Though they have everything.
有人听说了关于莫斯科攻势的 Has anyone heard anything remotely optimistic
好消息吗？ about the Moscow assault?
没什么好消息 同情心泛滥了 No good news. Sympathy's all round.
很冷 It's cold.
什么？ What?
那儿一定很冷 It must be cold.
这儿都些有什么？ What've we got, eh?
我看到了红酒 可没有啤酒 I see wine, but, no beer.
这些是什么？雪茄 长官? And what are these? Cigar, sir?
麻烦了 Please.
纽曼Neumann,
四年计划部门主管 director, Office of the Four-Year Plan.
卢瑟！不好意思 Luther... excuse me.
长官 这位是... Sir, this is, um...
四年计划主管 director.
帝国元帅戈林的心腹 A close associate of Reichsmarshall Goring.
纽曼 我来介绍克劳普佛博士 Neumann, I introduce Dr. Klopfer.
“卓越布朗”的密友 （“卓越布朗 Brown Eminence”即马丁.鲍曼：希特勒私人秘书 纳粹二号战犯） A close associate of the brown eminence.
什么布朗？ Brown? Excuse me--
我代表马丁.鲍曼 I represent Martin Bormann,
他是党主席千年计划负责人 the party chairman of the Thousand-Year Plan.
希特勒万岁 Heil Hitler.
克里琴格博士在吗？ Is Dr. Kritzinger here?
是的 他在 长官 Yes, he is, sir.
那就好 That's a relief.
希特勒万岁 Heil Hitler.
他们上路了吗？ Are they on their way?
还没 长官 Not yet, sir.
谁迟到了？ Who is late?
我们 We are.
还有谁没到？ Who is not here?
海德里希总队长 长官 General Heydrich, sir.
不过他正前来But he's on his way.
他也许进庭园了 He will make his entrance.
万事俱备 人人都很自在 Everything is fine. Everyone's comfortable.
食物 雪茄 美酒 Food, cigars, wine.
一级大队长 Colonel.
他到了 长官 He's here, sir.
希特勒万岁 Heil Hitler.
穆勒 Muller.
一级大队长 Colonel.
我真喜欢这栋房子 I love this house.
从空中俯瞰 Seeing it from the air,
你不得不赞叹建筑师的功力 you can appreciate the architect.
一切就绪了吗 Are we ready?
当然 长官 Absolutely, sir.
等战争结束 这儿就是我的家 And after the war, it will be my home.
多棒的一个家 Marvelous home, so...
长官 大家对莫斯科的局势有些疑问 Sir, there have been questions unrelated about Moscow,
不过我想现在都已经被我成功化解了 but I think I have deflected them successfully.
希特勒万岁 Heil Hitler.
知道了 Understood.
如果我们整天都要这么喊那就没完没了了 If we keep doing this all day, we will never finish.
没有对元首不敬的意思 With no disrespect to our Fuhrer,
但我们应该在正事办完之前先停一停 it is suspended until the conclusion of business, fine?
是 长官 很好 Yes, sir. Very good.
这有酒 长官 There's wine, sir.
你们需要的都有吗？ You have all had what you need?
那么 就让我们回到正题上来 Well, then let us do what we are here for,
开完会之后再放松 好吗？ and refreshments after?
我们会自己动手的 There will be a buffet lunch.
很好 克里琴格博士 Very good... Dr. Kritzinger.
您能来太好了 让我们开始吧 Important that you be here, let us begin.
我们的元首现在在干什么？ Our Fuhrer. How's his mood?
当然是在发号施令了 Well, commanding, of course.
他在俄国的将军们让他很没面子 His generals in Russia are a disgrace.
这次会议应该... In calling this conference--
等会儿再说 等会儿再说 In a moment, in a moment.
先生们 你们的座位已经排列好了 Gentlemen, your places are identified.
感谢大家的到来 Thank you all for coming.
请吧 请落座吧 Please, sit down.
抱歉让你们多等了一会儿 I'm sorry that I held you up a little,
不过我确定你们都品尝过美酒了 but you had elegant wine, I'm sure.
而且我相信没人会嫌喝酒太早吧 And no one there to say it's too early for that.
准备好了 Now, are you all set up?
他负责记录 He's prepared.
很好 Very good. Well then,
这有点像第一次参加夏令营 at the risk of sounding like the first day at summer camp,
让我们先来做下自我介绍 let us go around the table and introduce ourselves
好让大家都彼此认识认识 for those who do not know others.
我最后一个来 先从穆勒旅队长开始吧 I shall save myself for last and start with General Muller.
党卫队旅队长海因里希.穆勒 秘密警察 Major General Heinrich Muller, SS Gestapo.
克劳普佛 Klopfer, representing the party,
我代表党中央 that is who I speak for.
我是克里琴格 帝国内阁部长级会议主任 I am Kritzinger, ministerial director of the Reich Chancellery.
我很感谢能被邀请 只是不知道为什么 I appreciate being called, but I wonder why I'm here.
我认为关于犹太人问题解决方案 The topic to be discussed,
的议题已经结束了 the coordination of the Jewish question,
它会结束的 I believe was resolved.
元首向我和我的上级阐述的... With the Fuhrer stating to me and to my superior general--
会结束的 It will be.
那么 So...
霍夫曼旅队长 General Hofmann,
来自种族与殖民总办事处 Race and Settlement Main Office.
我们负责解决种族和殖民方面的事务 We deal with matters of race and settlement.
该我了吗？ Is it me?
雷勃朗特 Leibbrandt,
我们的部门负责管理占领区 the political office of the ministry
以及波兰东部 for all we hold and administer in eastern Poland,
波罗的海 还有苏联 the Baltics, and in the Soviet Union--
我是国务秘书 代表全体行政部门 And I am the state secretary for the ministry as a whole.
报上名来 Give them your name.
梅耶 博士 不好意思 Meyer, doctor, sorry.
斯图卡特 内政部 Stuckart, Interior Ministry.
马丁.卢瑟
外交部秘书长 under secretary of the Foreign Ministry.
在座诸位我基本都见过了 I met almost everybody.
我叫纽曼 My name is Neumann,
四年计划 director,
部门主管 Office of the Four-Year Plan.
兰格 Lange,
党卫队拉脱维亚特遣队副司令 deputy commander of SS task forces in Latvia,
没别的什么了 among other things.
别的我们这儿都有了 Oh, we all have other things.
我是约瑟夫.布勒 I'm Josef Buhler, secretary of state
德占波兰政府的国务秘书 of the general government of German-occupied Poland.
那里到底有多冷？ How cold is it up there?
克拉科夫比华沙好点 Better Krakow than Warsaw.
现在是德国人做主 Now that it is run by Germans,
波兰的冬天应该奈何不了你了 you should be spared those Polish winters.
情况并非如此 Not the case.
尚伽茨 Schongarth.
党卫队占领区政府特派员 SS assigned to the general government.
弗雷斯勒博士 司法部的 Dr. Freisler, Ministry of Justice.
同时也是暴风突击队的成员 Also I hold rank in the storm troopers.
这就是我 So, that is who I am.
阿道夫.艾克曼 党卫队秘密警察 Adolf Eichmann, SS Gestapo,
犹太事务部 还有 Office of Jewish Affairs and that should be,
就这么多了 yes, that's all.
我是海德里希 And I am Heydrich,
党卫队保安处主管 SS Chief of Reich Security, Main Office
第三帝国波希米亚和摩拉维亚保护领总督 and Reich Protector of Bohemia and Moravia.
欢迎各位 And welcome.
你们每个人手头上都有些文件 Now, you have each been given some papers.
这些文件是单独给你们的 These are for you alone.
禁止复印 除上级以外禁止与 No copies to be made, not to be seen by others
任何人观看或讨论 or discussed with others, except superiors.
我们在此处理的事务 How we deal with matters here
必须对我们的敌人严格保密 must be held secret from our enemies.
当我们控制了思想之后再控制局势就容易多了 We control events better when we control opinion.
今天 我们每个人都将保守秘密 Today, each of us becomes a bearer of secrets.
而且我们的书记员也会守口如瓶 And our secretary will be discreet.
他很可靠 He agrees.
很可靠？很好 He agrees. Excellent.
过了今天 我们之间的联系 Communication between us after today
必需经由艾克曼一级大队长审查通过 will pass in both directions through Lt. Colonel Eichmann,
他是我本人在处理犹太事务方面的全权代表 acting as my deputy for all Jewish matters.
也是你们的联系人 He is your focal point.
首先 So, to begin.
我们面临犹太人在德国的滞留问题 We have a storage problem in Germany with these Jews
有关各类犹太人 以及相关复杂法律 and there have been conversations for almost a year now
的探讨已经持续了一年 对于大家来说 about this Jew and that Jew and the complexities of the law.
这个问题一直在 And this problem, as you, I'm sure know,
困扰我们 has tormented us.
首先 我们已经决定将他们从 As you know, we first undertook to expel them from all means
德国人日常生活的每个方面驱除出去 by which our people would have to deal with them.
在纽伦堡已经制订了该项法律 Every sphere of life of our German people.
我觉得我们应该敬编写者 The laws we enacted at Nuremberg,
敬斯图卡特博士一杯 and we should all drink a toast to Dr. Stuckart for devising them.
合作编写 Co-author, modestly.
我只是和他人合作编写而已 I am the co-author.
他们制订的法律准则将会为世界展现一个 They established the fundamental legality
从犹太人手中解放的社会 for the creation of a Jew-free society,
和经济体制 而我们确实 a Jew-free economy, for the world to see.
已经将犹太人 And we indeed have eliminated the Jew
从国民生活中清除了 from our national life.
现在 不仅如此 Now, more than that,
不仅如此 现在整个犹太民族 the Jew himself must be physically eradicated
必须从我们的生存空间中彻底消灭 from our living space.
澄清一下 Clarification.
等会儿会有时间的 Absolutely, there will be a moment for that.
但如果可以的话 我们推行了一项强有力的移民政策 But if I may, we pursued a vigorous policy of emigration,
谁还接受他们? but who would take more of them?
谁想要他们 Who would want them,
毕竟政策是有其根本局限性的 was the policy's ultimate limitation.
欧洲的每个口岸要么为人不齿地接受他们 Every border in Europe rejects them
要么干脆回绝他们 or charges outrageously to accept them.
还有美国？ America?
谢谢 甚至是美国 Even America, thank you, yes,
就算犹太人都在罗斯福的耳边大放苦水 where Jews whisper all the time in Roosevelt's ear,
却还是都被拒绝 still they turn them away.
然后 在占领波兰之后 Then, in acquiring Poland,
他们的数量达到了二百五十万以上 we acquired 2 1/2 million more.
到八月底 我们会面临新的情况 So, by last July we were met with a new situation.
我们预计 在很短的一段时间之内 We would, in very short order,
在我们征服俄国之后 be acquiring some 5 million Jews
他们的数量将达到五百万之众 as we conquered Russia.
我认为该数字 The dimensions of this problem
被人为夸大了 then have magnified astoundingly,
五百万呐 5 million.
这正是问题所在我们的犹太人区都满了 Exactly the problem. Our ghettos are full--
所有这些犹太人区 呵 波兰人起得名 All those ghettos, yes, with, um, Polish names,
它们的确满了 fully occupied.
不过暂时能撑住 请容我继续 谢谢 But hold for now, please, if you would.
到那时 八月底 At that time, last July,
即将面临新情况 confronting this new situation,
帝国元帅戈林准备了一份指示 Reichsmarshall Goring prepared a directive.
各位都有副本 You have a copy in your folders.
我不妨来读读 其文如下 The operative words, if you will permit me to read,
“在此我指示你等做好所有必要之准备” "I hereby charge you with making all necessary preparations
“组织一切之人力及资金” "in regard to organizational and financial matters
“在德意志及” "for bringing about a complete solution
“全欧之影响范围内” "of the Jewish question
“全面彻底解决犹太人问题” in the German sphere of influence in Europe."
好了 以上 便是对整个 Now, for that I read the cleansing
欧洲大陆的一次清洗 of the entire continent of Europe.
呃 这个词...“清洗” You, you see, the word "cleansing"--
我认为是很准确的一个词 An accurate word, I think.
请容我继续 If I may go on,
第二段 in the second paragraph.
“凡相关之政府部门” "Wherever other governmental agencies are involved,
“皆须与你配合” these are to cooperate with you."
我当然希望如此 I hope, so on, so on,
“以便共同完成” "as necessary for the accomplishment
“亟待解决之犹太人问题” of the desired solution of the Jewish question."
所以 So...
这就是我们的命令 我们大家的 this is our mandate, all of us.
请容我发言 客观说来 May I say, in fairness,
犹太问题属于我的部门份内之事 the Jewish question falls within
而我们内阁还没有收到指令 the responsibilities of my department--
能给我一两分钟吗 克里琴格博士？ If you will give me a moment or two, Dr. Kritzinger,
你的文件夹里有档案吗 the document is in your folder.
就在你的文件夹里 Yes, it is in your folder.
我就知道 I'm sure it is.
结果 命令下达之后发生了什么呢？ Finally, what has happened since that directive was written.
简单说来 目前 Succinctly now.
俄国战事尚未结束 We are standing still in Russia.
美国人也参战了 The Americans have now joined the war.
这两方会慢慢 Both of these events,
榨干我们的军力 我们的经济 a further drain on our military, our economy,
我们的人力 我们的食物供给 our manpower, our food supply.
我们不能留着这些犹太人 We cannot store these Jews.
移民政策结束了 Emigration is over
而迫切需要的解决方案就是我们在座各位 and the inevitable solution is what we together at this table
这个下午需要讨论的 will discuss this afternoon.
我们继续 We will go on.
现在 你们有一份文件 Now, you will find a document
上面是欧洲各国滞留 listing the remaining Jewish population
犹太人数量的清单 by country in Europe
包括俄国——“苏联”也好 “俄国”也罢 and whatever the USSR or Russia
他们时日无多了 calls itself for the time it has left.
刚才我提到过 移民政策将会终止... As I mentioned, emigration policy will stop.
对不起 I apologize.
有海德里希总队长的电话 A call for General Heydrich.
去看看是谁 别多说 See who it is and end the calls.
是 长官 Yes, sir.
我们稍等一小会儿 We will take but a moment.
请坐下 克里琴格博士 Please sit, Dr. Kritzinger.
让我们都自在点 好吗？ Make us all comfortable, hmm?
这是怎么一回事？ Where is this going?
是的 我是艾克曼一级大队长 Yes, this is Lieutenant Colonel Eichmann.
我知道 二级大队长 Yes, I understand, major,
可是总队长现在没时间听电话 but the general has requested to be free of calls at this time.
如果你可以向我说明一下情况 If you wish to explain the matter to me--
好的 yes.
是的 我确定如果你打给他的办公室的话 Yes, I'm sure if you call his office, you--
是的 是的 yes, yes.
希特勒万岁 Heil Hitler.
这次会议根本不存在 This meeting is not taking place.
任何与会人员的电话你都不准接 You are to take no phone calls for anyone at this meeting.
任何人 Anyone.
除非是元首亲自打来的 Unless the Fuhrer calls.
但他不会的 And he won't.
明白了吗？ Understood?
长官 Sir.
陆军元帅赖歇瑙就这么 So here is Field Marshal Reichenau
被困在椅子上 strapped to a chair
然后开始抽搐 在飞机上 and put, convulsing, on the plane,
就这么死了 where he dies.
他想学龙徳施泰那样搞一次撤退 结果呢 Now, he wanted to retreat as deeply as Runstedt did,
龙徳施泰得了枚勋章 而赖歇瑙却永垂不朽了 but Runstedt got his medal and Reichenau the hereafter.
舒斯海姆二级大队长 A Major Schwarzheim
他不太配合 was reluctant to give me any message.
他不像我这样赏识你 He does not appreciate you as I do.
说到移民 Emigration...
替代移民的政策 the policy that will take the place of emigration,
我们已经收集了足够的实践经验 and we have collected enough practical experience to do it well,
就是疏散 is evacuation.
这和移民政策有什么不同吗？ Which differs from emigration in what way?
疏散到哪儿？ Evacuation to where?
我们等会儿再讨论那个问题 Let us postpone that question for a while.
到地狱！ To hell, one hopes.
不少人已经到了 Many already have.
他们有地狱么？ Do they even have a hell?
现在有了 我们送的 They do now. We provide it.
我们已经保证过 KRITZINGER; We have received assurances
要让这些犹太人住得舒舒服服 that these Jews are held in livable conditions.
你搪塞我 那是你的特权 You are postponing. That is your prerogative.
只是我能不能有机会说两句呢？ Will I have an opportunity to be heard on this?
我保证可以 On my word of honor.
容我继续 If I may?
现有132000犹太人光明正大留在德国 132,000 Jews left in Germany proper,
奥地利：42700 Austria, 43,700,
东部占领区：420000 occupied eastern territories, 420,000,
德占波兰：2284000. general government, 2,284,000,
比亚韦斯托克：400000 Bialystok, 400,000,
还有摩拉维亚：74200 and Moravia, 74,200,
爱沙尼亚：一个都没有 Estonia, not a one.
我听过关于爱沙尼亚最好的事情 The very best thing I have ever heard about Estonia.
你们都有数据 我就不全读了 You have this list. I will not read them all.
法国 罗马尼亚 英国也存在大量犹太人 Plenty in France, Romania, England, USSR.
苏联：五百万 现在 或者很快 5 million in what is, or will be soon,
我们的星球上将充斥着一千一百万“神的选民” our sphere of control over 11 million chosen people.
长官 其他定义？ Sir, the changing definitions--
对 继续 谢谢 Yes, go ahead, thank you.
我们不像英美那样仅仅 Except that there are countries that define Jewishness non-racially,
依靠宗教信仰来作为 merely as religious practice.
区分犹太人的手段 England, America.
我们还有其他的附加准则 Therefore, by our racial principles,
如果某人说犹太语 there may be many additional uncounted Israelites.
那他就是犹太人 And he speaks Jewish.
不 他就是 No, he does, he does.
现在 我们的挑战便是 What then confronts us here,
通过大家的探讨 in open discussion,
进而作出必要的结论 which will inform the choices we must make,
以便解决 is what to do
压迫着我们的日益增长的犹太人问题 to deal with this staggering number of Jews overwhelming us.
我的建议是把所有健康的犹太人 Now, my suggestion is to take all able-bodied Jews,
按性别分开 separated according to sex,
送往东部 作为劳动力 to the east to work in construction units,
尤其在道路修建方面 specifically for road building--
我们实际点好吗？ Yes, can we be practical?
你只字不提 You are hardly describing
关于要善待这些人的保证 the promised livable conditions for these people.
从表面上看 你的计划 On the face of it, your plan--
呃 对不起 不太成功 Excuse me, does not succeed.
不着边际 It is, um, well, fanciful.
从你收集的这份数据上看 You have, in this collection here
俄罗斯—欧洲的五百万犹太人中间 5 million Russo European Jews,
10%是农民 15%是城镇工人 10% agriculture, 15% urban workers,
商人几乎占20% tradesmen, almost 20%,
行政官员：差不多24% bureaucrats, almost 24%,
医生、作家、记者、演员等等 doctors, writers, journalists, actors, and so on...
几乎占33% almost 33%.
修路？ Building roads?
这五百万中间有75% 75% of your 5 million
的人根本没拿过比铅笔还重的东西 have not picked up anything heavier than a pencil.
是的 而且会有因自然原因 Yes, and most will be casualties,
而造成的大量伤亡 eliminated by natural causes.
我们决定将其完善 We intend to be complete.
我们将把整个欧洲从西到东梳理一遍 We will comb Europe from west to east.
先从波希米亚和摩拉维亚保护领开始 Starting with the protectorates, Bohemia and Moravia,
我们将先从他们那里开始疏散 we will evacuate them first.
所有被疏散的犹太人 将以批次 All to be evacuated Jews, group by group,
通过犹太区的交通线 will be sent to, call them transit ghettos,
全部送到东部去 and then transported to the east.
长官 Sir, please.
你想先从你们那儿开始 我知道 You want yours first. I understand.
让我先弄我的 等会儿会听你说的 Let me make my case. You will be heard.
你计划什么时候把他们的女人弄走？ When in your plan do you take their women away?
她们最爱乱搞 How they love to make the beast.
克制一下 Control yourself.
超过65岁的犹太人 Jews who have beyond 65 years
将被送往老年犹太区 will be moved into old age ghettos,
特莱西恩施塔特比较合适 possibly Theresienstadt will be chosen,
在那儿他们能够善终 where they can expire at their own speed.
我们将会清除所有受过伤的犹太裔老兵 We will sweep all severely wounded Jewish veterans
以及所有受过最高军事嘉奖的人 and those given the highest military decorations,
就算如一级铁十字勋章之类 the Iron Cross First Class.
的荣誉也会被撤销 That fine distinction will be abandoned.
他们也会被送到老年犹太区去 They go, too, into the old age ghettos
要不我们会被大量 or we will be drowning in requests
的声讨淹没的 for exemptions and interventions.
我更喜欢另一种方式的声讨 I was referring to intervention of another kind.
两腿之间 Below the waist.
这一切都很狡猾 Oh, this is all very beguiling,
但是你考虑过那些有特别待遇的犹太人吗？ but when you include privileges for these Jews or those Jews,
党中央十分关心自己的利益 the party chancellery sees its interests a certain way,
而我所代表的马丁.鲍曼 and Martin Bormann, I can speak for him,
同样具有元首赋予的权威 has his authority as well, from the Fuhrer.
所以我们不能仅仅靠放弃特权 We do not just surrender our prerogative
来搞定犹太问题 to decide Jew questions.
每个人的意见都会考虑进去的 Everyone's point of view will be considered.
你见过长着两个头的动物吗？ Did you ever see an animal with two heads?
它们活不了 They do not live.
想看看鲍曼和戈林一决雌雄吗？ Want to see Bormann and Goring fight it out?
我们不会排挤任何人 HEYDRICH: We are not trying to roll over anyone.
持反对意见的人 Quite the opposite.
还有人想要深究这个问题吗？ Does anyone else want to raise this question now?
上面已经直接我要求 Because I tell you, I have been asked
把德国和全欧洲从犹太人的 to direct the release of Germany and all of Europe
魔爪中解放出来 from the Jewish stranglehold,
而我相信 只要同心协力 我们是可以做到的 and I believe that together we will.
而命令很清楚 But the brief remains clear:
全欧洲 英格兰 all of Europe, England,
从拉普兰到利比亚 from Lapland to Libya,
从海参崴到贝尔法斯特 没有犹太人 from Vladivostok to Belfast, no Jews.
不留死角 Not one.
[Pounding]
我建议 Now, I pro--
我建议在各国的外交部专家们 I propose that the appropriate expert from the Foreign Ministry
与党卫队秘密警察协调好 act as channel to the SS security police in each country.
我希望你 I am counting on you
来作为我在外交部的联系人 to be my link to the Foreign Ministry.
我想从大体上解释一下 Now, I think, having explained in general
我们所面临的问题 what we are challenged to do,
而且我欢迎一切意见和建议 I would be grateful for comments and questions.
让我们先放松一下 吃点东西 And let us have some refreshment in here.
就像企业大老板们那样 Pretend we are the directors of I.G. Farben.
他们是这样的吧？ That's how they do it, is it not?
我们就是这样做的 No, that is how we do it.
我们是这样做到的 How we do it.
各位 随意吧 Gentlemen, please.
我的朋友 我读了你的建议 HEYDRICH: My friend, I have read your recommendations.
我感谢你的努力和想法 I appreciate the effort and the thought.
听到了我以前写过的一些东西 I heard some of what I wrote
你已经说过了 in what you have already said.
我想不是 I think not.
我听说海德里希有那么点犹太血统 I hear that Heydrich has a little Jew blood in him.
那你干嘛不去问他？ Why don't you ask him?
这些数字太容易混淆 The numbers are misleading.
混淆？ Misleading?
“谁算是犹太人”是另一个问题 Who's a Jew is another question, you see.
他们不算入异族 Not a heterogeneous--
不算入异族人口 not a heterogeneous population.
你怎么会说希伯来语的？ And how is it that you can speak Hebrew?
还是你只说意第绪语？ （意第绪语：Yiddish 又名依地语 犹太人使用的国际语） Or is it only Yiddish you speak?
我在他们中间生活过 与他们一起工作过 Well, I lived among them, I worked among them,
我会说那么几句 and I picked up a few words,
他们南腔北调的 根本不够说 Jewish, Yiddish, what they were, not enough to speak.
所以我要去找个拉比 So, I went in search of a rabbi.
拉比就是“老师”的意思 我找到了一个 Rabbi means teacher, I came to find out.
我能告诉你主的真理吗？ But, may I tell you the Lord's honest truth?
很多像你这样的高级官员 So many of our highest ranking officers,
一边要处理犹太事务 whose responsibility it is to deal with the Israelites,
一边却根本不想弄清这些犹太人的思想 they make no attempt to get inside the Jewish head.
后来我去见这个拉比 是个长胡子老头 I went to visit this rabbi, old man, long beard,
在他的单人间里面 in his one-room flat,
他看见了我 and when he saw me,
眼睛瞪得和鸡蛋一样 his eyes grew as large as hen's eggs.
我要他教我他们的语言 他同意了 I asked him to teach me his language and he agreed.
而且他说他会教的 只是可能会收我的钱 And he said that he would, but that he would charge me.
当然 Of course.
我向上级申请公款 结果被拒绝了 So, I applied to my commander for funds and I was denied.
于是我这辈子就违心了这么一次 Now, I've run into this opposition all my life
我自己掏了钱 很少 就一点 so I paid my own money, very little, not much.
后来他教给了我一些字母 And he taught me some vocabulary,
和词汇 letters of the alphabet,
回想起来 当时是我糊涂了 but looking back I realize it was poor judgment on my part,
因为我完全可以把这老头关起来 because I could've so easily had the old man arrested,
再命令他在牢里给我上课 put into prison, and demanded lessons from him
而且还是免费的 in his cell free of charge.
有一天 他离开了 One day, he went out.
被抓起来遣送走了 He was rounded up and shipped off
原因是一次鲁莽地外出 because he had gone out unadvisedly.
我就想了 这太愚蠢了 And I thought, that's so stupid.
他们怎么这么愚蠢？ Why are they so stupid?
难道他不知道 我可以保护他么？ Didn't he know that I would've protected him?
至少是在我的课程结束之前 At least until my lessons were complete.
我希望我们可以在2点20之前结束 HEYDRICH: I want to be through by 2:30 or earlier.
现在我们该继续了 There is no reason why we cannot keep going.
我希望各位回到桌前 I'd prefer you all to stay at the table.
到时候会有 There will be a buffet lunch.
会有一份简单的午餐 完美 There will be a buffet lunch. Excellent.
现在 请回座位吧 大家已经各抒己见了 Now, settle down. We're moving along.
你有总体的理解 You have the overall understanding,
但很明显有一些要点地区必须即刻疏散 but it's clear that some areas will evacuate--
我们的意大利盟友那里如何？ What about our friends the Italians?
那些意大利人呐 The Italians.
我们全都相信仁慈的主会从 We must all trust the good Lord
意大利盟友手中拯救我们的 to save us from our Italian friends.
不行就这样 如果他们不净化他们那里的犹太人 In the last analysis, if they do not purge their Jews,
我们就自己动手 then we will go down and accomplish it,
而且要先从他们那里开始 and put their priorities in order.
在法国 甚至在未占领区 In France, even where we aren't occupying,
他们在用船把犹太人送走 they will ship their Jews out comfortably.
现在 这里有另一个问题 Now, here is another problem.
外交部发现了 The Foreign Ministry sees difficulty
一些迅速疏散犹太人的难点 在斯堪的纳维亚 at going at these evacuations too fast in Scandinavia.
就像你所说的 在拉普兰 As you say, Lapland.
除非我们在那儿增派部队 Unless we tie up a lot more troops there,
增派我们原本要在俄斯斯方面用上的部队 troops which we need for the Russian campaign,
莫斯科 Moscow,
否则斯堪的纳维亚不会配合的 the Scandinavians will not cooperate.
你们怎么看待欧洲其他地区？ What do your people see for the rest of Europe?
外交部认为在巴尔干 Foreign Ministry sees no difficulty with the Balkans,
东南欧还有西欧都没有问题 这酒真不错 southeast and western Europe; this is very good.
长官 什么？ Sir. Hmm? Yes.
种族与殖民总办事处 The Race and Settlement Main Office
计划派遣一位专家前往匈牙利 is planning on sending an expert to Hungary
来确定日后的我们主要政策倾向 for general orientation on our policies
我想同时你的顾问就 and I think that should take place at the same time
用不着去了 as you send your adviser.
我们可以怀柔一点 That will put some iron in the glove, so to speak.
不要什么怀柔 长官 The glove itself is iron, sir,
而且政策的执行也不许有丝毫懈怠 and there should be no confusion as to where policy emanates,
你不认可吗？ don't you agree?
我只是希望现存的双边关系可以 I should hope that established relationships
持续下去 will be maintained.
如果他们可以保持生产也就罢了 可如果他们不能呢 If they are productive, but not if they are not.
如果我可以代表大家发言 If I may speak for the group.
我不是这个意思 It is not my intention--
那你是什么意思？ What is your intention?
我的部门的工作已经到位了 The work done by our department.
我们精选的专家也已经准备好 Our particular expert is prepared--
我们都是为元首服务 元首给了我指挥权 We both serve the Reichsfuhrer, but he gave the command to me.
我建议你的人马好好辅助我的手下 I suggest your adviser serve as an assistant to my man.
那样对我们的部门都有好处 不是吗？ That preserves the relative powers of our offices, does it not?
是的 当然 是的 Yes, it certainly does, yes.
本该如此 That is how it should be.
那这事就交给你了 I will leave it to you, then,
到时候和艾克曼一级大队长联系 to be in touch with Colonel Eichmann.
是 Yes.
坐好 我们继续 Settled. We are moving along.
现在 我们有一个棘手的问题 Now we are presented with a difficult problem.
我感觉应该像当年在亚历山大广场一样 My instinct is to be Alexandrian and solve a difficult tangle
在今天下午 雷厉风行地解决这一棘手的混乱局面 with a sharp, clean stroke this afternoon.
我们所有的行动都将以法律为基础 All our actions must be predicated on law.
任何事情都要以纽伦堡法为依据 Everything we have done flows from the Nuremberg laws,
该法案是由斯图卡特博士于1935年 which Dr. Stuckart brought forth to the Reichstag in 1935,
呈给帝国国会的 and now we have to examine those.
我们现在应基于 The blood and honor laws
有关通婚和混血人群方面的法律 in regard to the problems of mixed marriages
来审核血统 and persons of mixed blood.
不仅仅是“谁算是犹太人”的问题 Not only who is a Jew,
现在各方面 都要依照法律 but how, in each defined circumstance,
将犹太人 从社会中 the Jew is expunged from society,
政府机关以及经济体制中 the government, the economy,
地毯式地 through ordinances.
清除出去 法律中有关豁免权 The tapestry, if you'll permit some pride...
的条款将会容许 The exemptions written into the law
大量犹太人留在我们中间 allow too many Jews to remain among us.
我们将仔细审核每种情况及豁免权 We address that problem by examining each category
来解决这一问题 and every exemption.
我们和总理府长官拉麦斯 Now, there have been communications with the Reich Chancellery head,
已经联系过了 他已经和元首讨论过这些问题了 Lammers, who has discussed these questions, I believe, with the Fuhrer.
你刚才问到为什么邀请你 You asked why you are here.
因为你是他的代表 You represent him.
当然我们同样欢迎你个人的见解 And your own opinion, we would like that too.
拉麦斯的确和元首 Lammers has indeed met with the Fuhrer
或者他的幕僚会见过了 or his staff on this question
并在这个问题上达成了一致 and reached an understanding.
克里琴格博士 Dr. Kritzinger,
那我们可以达成更进一步的一致吗？ can we come to a further understanding here?
我们大家可以取得一致吗？ What can we all agree on?
我所赞成的 What I would like agreed here
把是祖辈中有2人是犹太人 is that mixed blood persons of the first degree,
自身有一半犹太血统 they have two Jewish grandparents,
这样的一级混血儿归为犹太人 they are half-Jews, they are just Jews,
他们要被疏散 他们的孩子也是 they go, their children go.
还有就是 截至目前 法律中有两种例外 And now there are, in the law, as of now, two exceptions.
你来解释一下 If you would.
对于一级混血儿 For first degree mixed,
如果他们与德国人结合并有子女 if they're married to Germans and they have children,
将被豁免 they're exempted.
他们的子女 二级混血儿 Their children would be second degree mixed,
将被视为德国人 who would be treated as Germans.
另一种例外就是 The other exception is for first degree mixed
被帝国以各种理由给予荣誉或嘉奖 who the Reich has already chosen to honor with special privilege
的一级混血儿 for whatever reason.
我们在这里谈论的是作为德国人生活的男人和女人 We are talking here of men and women who live as Germans.
他们又没有在信仰上或行为上表现得像犹太人 They do not worship as Jews, they do not behave as Jews,
只不过有点犹太血统而已 but they have some quantity of blood.
是犹太裔 The genetic Jew.
在这种情况下 我们将下狠心 And in those cases we are going to reexamine
并很可能撤销 each individual determination
他们的豁免权 and perhaps revoke their exemption.
纽伦堡法 The Nuremberg laws--
任何有豁免权的人 And whoever receives exemption
最好是自身具有特殊价值 better damn well have some extraordinary merits personally,
而不仅仅只是有个德国父母或德国配偶而已 not just by the merits of a German parent or husband or wife.
那些原本可以免于被疏散的人 And those who are exempt from evacuation,
现在待遇下降了 也要被归类到 they too will fall within certain categories--
对不起 将军 很抱歉 Could you, general, sorry.
我切身感觉到 I have the real feeling
我不久前在里加刚刚“疏散”了通过枪毙他们的方式 I evacuated 30,000 Jews already by shooting them.
30000犹太人 At Riga.
怕是不是就是在“疏散”呢？ Is what I did "evacuation"?
他们是不是觉得自己被“疏散”了呢？ When they fell, were they evacuated?
还有至少20000人正等待着 There are another 20,000 at least
以同样的方式被“疏散” waiting for similar evacuation.
我只是觉得这样有助于理解这个词的意思 I just think it is helpful to know what words mean.
毫无冒犯之意 With all respect.
容我发言 If I might,
我认为完全没有必要来承担记录的 I think it's unnecessary to burden the record.
是的 Yes.
我个人认为他们是被疏散了 In my personal opinion, they are evacuated.
解释 Explain!
我刚刚解释过了 I have just done so.
那不是 不是 这和内阁得到 That is not, no, that is contrary
的消息正好相反 to what the chancellery has been told.
我已经直接得到了保证 I have directly been assured, I have...
那个 ...that...
净化犹太人 是的 Purge the Jews, yes.
但是消灭他们 But to annihilate them...
难道我们计划系统地 that we have undertaken to systematically
来消灭欧洲所有的犹太人 annihilate all the Jews of Europe,
不 不 不 这种可能性 no, no, no, that possibility
已经由元首亲自向我否认了 has personally been denied to me by the Fuhrer!
而这将会继续下去的 And it will continue to be.
是啊 我了解了 Yes, I understand.
是啊 Yes...
而他也会继续否认下去的 he will continue to deny it.
非常抱歉 My apologies.
你接受我的道歉吗？ Do you accept my apologies?
那是当然 Of course.
太好了 So very kind.
那些一级混血儿 Those mixed in the first degree.
是的 那些得到豁免的一级混血儿 Yes, those mixed in the first degree,
都将被绝育 who are exempted, will be sterilized.
我发表一下我的观点 May I just point out
关于众所周知的 with regard to special exemptions.
特别豁免的问题 Now, it's widely known,
这是我听来的一个 I've heard the opinion expressed myself,
我很赞成的观点 that there are 80 million good Germans
有八千万善良的德国公民几乎人人都知道 and each one of them knows his decent Jew
有些广受尊敬的“正派犹太人” even if he regards all the rest as vermin.
就算他们是正派犹太人 If there are decent Jews,
在他们变得真正正派之前 then before they are decent,
他们还是犹太人 and indeed after, they are Jews.
不要多说了 一级混血儿都要被绝育 No, first degree exempted will be sterilized.
不再有后代 No more children
最终不再有混血 一劳永逸 and eventually no more mixed blood once and for all.
了解这一意义非常重要 It is important to know what words mean,
更重要的是从现在到千年之后 but it is important to remember that a thousand years from now,
不管谁在掌权 no matter who holds the power,
历史都将铭记这些 history will be written in those words.
你的意思是 Do you expect the men
连老年人也都要绝育吗？ serenely to submit to being sterilized?
干嘛不要？ 反正他们的那话儿都用不上了 Why not? They've already had their cocks clipped.
这是自愿性质的 无论是谁 It's voluntary, man or woman.
要么失去生育功能 One can lose one's possibility to reproduce
要么被疏散 or one can be evacuated.
如果一级混血儿要被绝育的话 If a first mixed is sterilized, then, of course,
那么纽伦堡法就不再适用了 the Nuremberg restrictions no longer apply.
纽伦堡法非常明确地指出了 The Nuremberg laws are very specific--
容我说完 When I am done.
谢谢 Thank you.
继续 Please.
关于二级混血儿 As for mixed of the second degree,
那些生来半犹太半德国血统 those born to a half-Jew and German,
或者四分之一犹太 in other words, 1/4 Jew,
四分之三德国血统的 3/4 German equals German.
等同德国人 With exceptions.
例外：如果父母都是混血那孩子 If both parents rather than one are mixed blood,
视为犹太人 the child's a Jew.
如果孩子看起来或者说话像犹太人 If the child is very Jewish looking or sounding,
那么即便只有四分之一混血 even with only 1/4 mixed blood--
要算主要血缘？ When that blood is dominant?
那他就是犹太人 Then he is a Jew.
第三 Third exception.
拥有刑事或政治犯罪记录的二级混血儿 A mixed second who has a criminal or political record.
对不起 长官 这是第二还是第三？ Excuse me, sir, is this a second or a third?
第二级混血儿 A mixed second.
第三项例外 Third exception.
对了 还有如果其选择犹太生活方式 In other words, he that shows he behaves like a Jew,
那就会被视为犹太人 then he will be considered as such.
如果任何符合例外的二级混血儿 And if any of these exceptions to the rule
与德国人结合 of second mixed marry a German,
那他们要被疏散 没有豁免 then they will be evacuated; no special dispensations.
婚姻法非常的复杂 The marriage laws are very complex--
是的 因为通婚 Yes, because mixed marriages
还包括德国人一方 inevitably include German relatives
他们和他们的子女 and they can have a vested interest
必须为结合 in the fate of the couple
而负起责任 and also of children born to the marriage.
就是这样 So, here it is.
一级混血儿与德国人的婚姻 Marriages between mixed firsts and Germans,
如果没有子女 if they have had no children,
视乎德国人一方反应 depending on the repercussions
否则半犹太混血儿 of the German side of the marriage,
将被疏散或送往老年犹太区 either the half-Jew is evacuated or to the old age ghetto.
特莱西恩施塔特 Theresienstadt?
有可能 某地 Possibly, somewhere.
此法同样适用于有德国妻子或丈夫的纯种犹太人 The same holds true for the full blood Jew with a German wife or husband.
如果他们有子女 Now, if there are children,
如果子女被划归为犹太人 if the rules classify them as Jews,
那么他们连同犹太父母一同要被疏散 they go with the Jew parent, evacuation or ghetto,
或送往犹太区 视实际情况而定 depending on the individual case.
如果他们被划归为德国人 If they're classified as German,
那么他们连同犹太父母将被豁免 then that spares both the child and the Jew parent.
一级混血儿与一级混血儿结合的 Jews of first mixed married to first mixed, they're Jews.
子女受同样待遇 Children as well, treated as such.
一级混血儿与二级混血儿结合的子女同样 First mixed married to second mixed, the same. Children are the same.
除非他们因特别原因被豁免 Unless they're exempted by special considerations,
不然就要被疏散 they are gone.
或者送往犹太区可能是特莱西恩施塔特 Otherwise to the ghetto, possibly Theresienstadt.
不管情况如何 In all cases
党卫队都将会是决策机构 the SS will be the determining agency.
在座的各位还有什么疑问了吗？ No question lingers in your mind about that, does it?
绝育的话得要慢慢来才行 Sterilization will be a growth industry.
谁会愿意为了不被疏散而去绝育？ Who would not choose infertility to avoid evacuation?
他们不会知道的 They would never know.
他们不会知道什么？ Would never know what?
如果不用“绝育”这个字眼的话 If you use a word other than sterilize--
你认为能瞒得过他们吗？ You think they would never know?
这只是保密的问题而已 It is simply a matter of secrecy.
血腥味可不好保密啊 The smell of blood carries very far.
这是个不可行的计划 I find the plan unworkable.
这是个一厢情愿的计划 I find the plan personally insulting
我花了多年时间编写 in that I have given years to codifying the laws
关于种族通婚方面的法律 regarding interracial marriage,
而现在我却在参与制订这些拙劣的 and now I'm presented with this clumsy, forgive me,
不好意思 这些不可行的东西 unworkable structure.
我的工作成果 这些法律法规 My work, these laws,
都是名副其实的 any legal code worthy of the name
来约束每个执法者 restricts the enforcers of the law
和公民的 as well as its subjects.
有些事情你是办不到的 There are some things you cannot do.
如你所见 As you see it.
我所见的是我不得不来配合 What I see is all I have to contribute here.
让我来修正一下 Let me offer a modification.
一个大家都能接受的小小改变 A simple change we can all accept.
也许能派上些用场 Maybe this helps, the outline.
长官 你所建议的 Sir, what you have suggested,
坦率地说 你说过 and, not to put too fine a point on it,
半混血儿都要被消灭 you have said that the half-mixed will be eliminated.
是疏散 Evacuated.
我错了 是“疏散” Evacuated, my mistake.
那样就全盘背离了法律 Now, that is a wholesale departure from the law.
而我的建议是 But my suggestion--
是什么呢？ Yes, which is?
我认为半混血儿应该像我们所说的那样 I say the half-mixed should get the choice we talked about.
可以选择被绝育或者被送走 To be either sterilized or taken away.
这样不就可以离纽伦堡法的 Does that not come closer to the spirit at least
底线近一点了吗？ of the Nuremberg law?
对吗？斯图卡特博士？ Dr. Stuckart, does it?
不 No.
对不起 不对 Sorry, no.
绝育还好说 Sterilization is promising,
但是这样试图以 but, attempting a supersession of what are,
主观评价来取代 are clearly defined laws
明确的法律条文 就好像是 in order to impose all these subjective evaluations.
就像是 原谅我 It's like, forgive me,
这就好像是在强奸法律一样 it is like the imposing of ad hoc law.
依靠主观评价 Depending on subjective evaluations
来判断某人像不像犹太人 as to whether he looks Jewish or he has a Jewish personality
有没有犹太人格等等 or whatever else
很容易造成解释的歧义和混乱 is subject to personal interpretation and variation,
包括那些该死的犹太人自己的主张 including the assertions of the damn Jew himself.
这是什么? And what does this do?
这是对纽伦堡法的颠覆 It subverts the Nuremberg laws
和对法律的蔑视及不敬 and it perpetuates disrespect for the law.
我认为我们是谨慎地以 I think we are absolutely basing our proposals--
不 诚恳而坦率地说 With all due respect, in all frankness.
你们弄得一团糟 It's a tangle.
身为法律编写者我也没有尊严 And this is not pride of authorship,
我只是 I am simply reacting
对这种官僚政治的作风很不满而已 to the bureaucratic train wreck that's to follow.
拜托 Please,
其实很简单 全部绝育就行 it is simply solved-- sterilize them all.
我们可以将其称为? We could call it, what could we call it?
比如“再社会化体检”或是什么的 Medical re-socialization or something
我们有办法的 that we can find ways.
生物学上的必需品都有现成的 The biological necessities are all met,
我的 my--
纽伦堡法是受尊敬的 the Nuremberg laws are respected,
一个简单的手续就可以 a simple procedure--
这里剪一刀 那里剪一刀 A snip here, a snip there.
这不是笑话 This is not a joke!
这不是 It is not, this is--
X光 X-rays.
你们不就是这样做的吗 Well, that is how you do it.
具体是怎样? Exactly how?
把X光机设在柜台或者桌子里面 You have this X-ray machine built into a counter or a desk.
让某个倒霉的犹太人 Some unfortunate Jew
在前面立正站好 然后 stands at attention in front of the desk,
完事了？ and bzzzz?
我不会再去你的办公室去了 I am not coming to your office.
而你们时不时要调整桌子的高度 So, you either raise the desk or lower the desk...
因为那个部位 A certain subterfuge--
我不知道它对女性管不管用 I do not know if it sterilizes the female.
这只是技术细节 That is a technical question.
非自愿 你说的？ Not voluntary, you're saying?
每个犹太人 不管那个级别 No, every Jew of whatever degree.
结了婚没有 不管多混血 Whoever betrothed to, however mixed.
不管在政府任什么职 Whatever service to the state.
吡吱！ Bzzz!
你是说我们不用再疏散他们 So, what you're saying is there's no need to evacuate them...
我们从这一代开始剪除这个种族 We pinch off the race at this generation.
帝国的法律 The law of the Reich!
法律是人订的 We make the law we need.
我为什么要告诉你？ Why am I telling you this?
这个房间里有多少法学家？ How many lawyers are in this room? Raise your hand.
哦 天哪 Oh, Jesus Christ,
比我想得还要糟 it's worse than I thought.
儿童呢？他们怎么办？ The children, what then, for them?
嗯？ Well?
对于儿童 你只要让他们都在桌子前面 Oh, the children, well, you just line them up
排好队 in front of their desks,
然后用X光烤他们的小JJ and X-rays toast their little gonads.
请容我？ If I might?
发表一下意见 For perspective,
其实在以前我们就已经 we have already been using sterilization
开始用绝育的手段对付心智障碍者了从1939年的T4计划开始 for the mentally defective since 1939 in our T-4 program.
T4计划？ T-4?
就是所谓的“安乐死”计划 是吗？ Euthanasia is the correct term, yes?
是的 帝国行政总监希姆莱已经 Yes, in fact, Reichsfuhrer Himmler
和总队长讨论过了 discussed it with the general.
显然 德累斯顿生物学会的一位医生发明了 Apparently a doctor at the Biological Institute in Dresden
一种针剂 打一针 就不会再有孩子了 has a simple injection-- you can father no children.
哪儿能弄得到？ Where can I get it?
对女人会很管用 It would be useful with the ladies.
“我治好啦 亲爱的” I am fixed, my dear.
当然了 目前 Of course, it is, as yet,
只在老鼠身上做过实验 only tested with mice and rats.
其实你根本用不着打针 Actually, you would not need the injection,
只要在法律上写下来说不准就行了 just the papers to say that you had had it.
我有些数据 不是太精确 I have figures, but they're not exact.
在1933到1936年间 Between 1933 and 1936,
大约有169000人 roughly 169,000 and by now, to date,
到现在 可能已经有300000人 possibly 300,000 under the law
以德国血统保护法的名义 for the protection of German blood and honor,
以各种手段被绝育了 have been sterilized by various methods.
X光 直接注射腐蚀性药剂 X-rays, injecting some corrosive chemical
进入子宫 directly into the womb.
是啊 这只是在帝国境内 Yes, this was only for the Reich itself,
不包括占领区 not occupied territories.
是的 Yes.
使用这些手段之后他们还能当劳工吗？ Are they fit for labor after these methods?
使用X光后 Well, with the X-rays,
有些剂量过重的问题 it's a problem of dosage.
小问题 我想 仅仅对妇女 Less a problem, I think, with the women, but...
对少数妇女有影响 less a problem with the women.
布勒先生刚刚表明了一个重点 Secretary Buhler makes an important point.
劳工 Labor.
对 就是劳工 Yes, exactly, labor.
我并不是在暗示帝国对劳工的需求 Now, I'm not implying that our problems in the Reich
和东部一样迫切 are the same as in the eastern territories,
但是对劳工的需要就像是军队对人员的需要 but the need for workers as the military need men,
而对生产力的要求只会一直增长下去 the need for production, is only growing.
那就是不能 That is why sterilization...
轻易的浪费人力 This man is wasting our time.
同时也就用不着我们的 ...it leaves our captive workforce,
俘虏劳动力了 what remains of it.
我不认为我们的人愿意等上几代人来 I do not think our people want to wait a generation
解决这个问题 to end this problem.
在装备生产和建设方面已经被 We have deferred Jews by the thousands
上千犹太人劳动力被延误了 in armaments, construction.
等等 我这里有一份样本 Wait, I can give you an exemplar.
这里引用了 It's just a quote from a letter
Bruder Boblick有限公司的一封信 from the Bruder Boblick Company,
还有其他很多企业也是 but there are many companies...
他的呼声真是 Just the sound of his voice
太阳都要下山了 and the sun goes down.
I.G. Farben集团的专家（I.G. Farben公司 德国化工业巨头） ...the specialists for I.G. Farben...
我想你不明白 I do not think you understand.
单单柏林冶金行业就有 Just in Berlin, over 10,000 Jews
超过10000名犹太人 in the metal industry alone.
而仅仅在柏林就有大约19000犹太人 About 19,000 altogether in Berlin,
这还只是在柏林 and that's just Berlin.
在填补我们的生产目标 就现在 Failing our production goals even now!
为了战争需要 For the war!
有一点 我们在这里进展太快了 Makes a point--we are moving too fast here,
很多事情还没搞清楚 nothing has been thought through.
绝育和疏散 This question of sterilization
的问题完全是两码事 and the question of deportation are separate.
是的 但都有关系 Yes, but linked.
发配 疏散 消灭 Deportation, evacuation, elimination.
就我的情况而言 我们必须尽快把他们弄走 Where I am, we have to move them out now, quickly.
把他们全都弄走 Wipe them away.
对 永远不要回来 Yeah, not to return.
在帝国国内和我们控制的其他地区 The truth is there are labor shortages
一直存在劳工紧缺的情况 in the Reich and elsewhere that we control.
—这无疑是事实 There is no argument about that fact.
各行业都缺 而在我们的四年计划中 Everywhere, and in our four-year plan--
哦 别再提他妈的什么四年计划了 Oh, not that fucking four-year plan again.
但我们的战争是针对犹太人的 But our war is against the Jews.
我看出有逻辑性呢 I do not see the logic.
我们不会把他们全都 We will not sterilize every Jew
绝育然后等他们老死 也不会通过绝育来 and wait for them to die. We will not sterilize every Jew
清除他们这个种族 and then exterminate the race.
说来可笑 死的男人不会勃起 That's farcical. Dead men don't hump,
死的女人也不会怀孕 dead women don't get pregnant.
死亡是比绝育更可靠的办法 Death is the most reliable form of sterilization,
这么想就对了 put it that way.
那样耽误的是谁？ So, who is deferred?
一级混血儿 与德国人结合所生 First degree mixed, married to Germans,
二级混血儿将被豁免 and second degree mixed children are exempt.
从个人的角度 On an individual basis,
包括获得特赦的一级混血儿 first degree mixed who have been awarded special privilege.
我不可能给每件事都订上该死的规矩 I cannot give a damn rule for everything.
我能多说一句么？ Can I just say one word more?
职责上 为了维持法制社会 Now, in the obligation to maintain a lawful--
又来说教了 Another lecture.
别人可能会提及我们的 ...what we would be saying to those...
关于我们无视法律驱逐 where we are departing from the legal letter
已婚犹太人的行为 and deporting a Jew married to a German,
需要一项新的法律 a new law will be required--
你为什么不写呢？ Why don't you write it?
考虑 考虑 把犹太人驱逐了 Consider, consider, the Jews are taken away.
德国配偶可能会继承 The German spouses will presumably
犹太配偶的财产 inherit the property of the Jewish spouses,
要去法院 go to court,
要提供申请死亡证明 a death certificate will be applied for,
那你的秘密杀戮怎么办？ and what happens to your secret killings then?
不管你怎么称呼他们 No matter what you call them,
秘密泄露了 亲爱的朋友们 the secret is out, dear friends.
假如没有遗产 假如离婚 Perhaps not inheritance, perhaps divorce,
自由再婚 freedom to remarry...
那么就得要有个离婚机构 so, a requisite divorce mechanism,
来处理这些被终止的婚姻 dealing with all these marriages to be terminated,
就变成了帝国 becomes the Reich's responsibility
对于这些公民的责任 to its German citizens.
妈的 Fuck.
我在说话 I am speaking!
除了被驱逐配偶留下的遗产问题 Now, except for those initiated before the spouse is deported,
法院还要忙于离婚案件 the courts are going to be so busy with divorces
他们得要24小时连轴转才行 that the civil courts will be on 24-hour shifts
一起诉讼得要等上十年 and the litigation wait will be accounted in decades.
或者更久 Or longer.
我一点也不同情 Well, I, for one, have no sympathy
这些和野人上床 with Germans who climb into bed
的德国杂种 with members of the tribe.
我也一样 Nor do I.
我就要问了“关他屁事？” I ask myself, what is this concern?
当我们的政府和我们的党 When the ruling principle of our government
一心要把德国从犹太人手中解放出来的时候 and our party is to make Germany Jew-free,
你却要说服大家让这些犹太佬留下？ you are arguing to let these yids stay?
要感化 要自由？ To influence, to operate freely?
除了让你阉割他们以外别的都不许？ With the exception that you neuter them?
他们不需要自由 他们不需要自由 They're not free, they are not free!
法律限制他们 隔离他们 The law restricts them, it isolates them--
我不仅仅是在为 也许我们的法官特别爱他们 Perhaps the judge has some special love for them.
是啊 特别的爱 Yes, yes, yes, special love.
爱谁？爱犹太人？ For whom? For Jews?
太好了 Oh, wonderful.
你根本没看过我的证书 You don't have my credentials.
请原谅 从你的制服上 Forgive me-- from your uniform
就可以看出你对犹太人那种 I can infer that you're shallow,
浅薄、无知、天真的观点 ignorant, and naive about the Jews.
你们这种党徒咆哮着说 Your line, what the party rants on about is,
他们有多劣等 多卑微 how inferior they are, some subspecies,
而我一再强调这是大错特错！ and I keep saying how wrong that is!
他们非常的聪明 They are sublimely clever!
他们非常有才智 And they are intelligent as well.
我对他们的控诉更有力 My indictments of that race
因为是真实的 are stronger and heavier because they are real.
而不是你那种无知的偏见 Not your uneducated ideology.
因为他们自负 自我陶醉 They are arrogant and self-obsessed
精于算计而且唾弃基督 and calculating and reject the Christ
我不能让他们污染德国人的血统 and I will not have them pollute German blood.
别这样 博士 Please, doctor.
他根本不了解 He doesn't understand.
他的同类也是 And neither do his people.
对付真实的犹太人 Deal with the reality of the Jew
世界会赞同我们 and the world will applaud us.
而把他们当作虚构的幻影 Treat them as imaginary phantoms,
当作邪恶 野蛮而不切实际的东西 evil, inhuman fantasies,
世界就会正大光明的藐视 and the world will have justified contempt for us.
我们无视法律的杀戮他们 To kill them casually
只会让他们成为殉道者 without regard for the law martyrs them.
那样就成了他们的胜利 It will be their victory.
绝育 就是承认他们 Sterilization recognizes them
是我们种群的一部分 as a part of our species,
但把他们排除在我们种族之外 but prevents them from being a part of our race.
他们很快就会消失的 They'll disappear soon enough,
而我们就会是我们种群 and we will have acted in defense of our race,
和我们种族的保护者 and of our species, and by the law.
并且合法 This fellow mentioned the law
他刚才提到了德国血统保护法 for the protection of German blood.
是我写了法律 I wrote that law.
等你看过了我的证书 And when you have my credentials,
我们再来讨论 then we'll talk about who loves the Jews
谁爱他们谁憎恨他们 and who hates them.
猪才不懂怎样去憎恨 Pigs don't know how to hate.
我也知道 I note, too, that when it comes to
一旦杀掉了半混血儿 the half-mixed, that to kill them,
也就等于背弃了他们身上那另一半德国的血统 abandons that half of their blood which is German.
我会记住你的 I'll remember you.
你应该的 我很有名 You should; I'm very well known.
我们应该去掉 We should take out the references
对基督的引用 to Christ and such.
我要阻止他 I should've stopped him.
先生们 请容许我暂停一下 Gentlemen, if I may, for a moment.
斯图卡特博士已经提出了 Dr. Stuckart has raised the question
关于疏散的行政因素方面的问题 of administrative consequences of evacuation.
他是一位卓越的法律学者 He is a very brilliant scholar of the law
而且我可以确定 他和我们其他人一样 and I am sure just as totally committed
完全忠于从犹太人手中解放欧洲的行动 to a Jew-free Europe as any of us.
让我们歇一会儿 Let us take a moment.
吃点东西 Go on with the food.
如果你想用你的级别来压人 If you are suggesting that you have dominion over me,
那么请记住 just remember this-- even the party,
即使我1922年就开始效忠党了 which I have served loyally since 1922,
我也要对政府负责 answers to the government.
他们都要对元首负责 They both answer to the Fuhrer.
可能你有戈林做后台 You may be a friend of Goring,
但如果你要打赌的话 but if you're a betting man,
最好押在鲍曼身上 put your money on Bormann.
听说你是开着自己 I hear you've been flying
那架强劲的小型飞机来的 that powerful little plane of yours.
是的 今天早上 This morning, yes.
我就不行 我一离开地面 Yes, I'm never comfortable off the ground.
我就不舒服 Not me, I admit.
尼采说享受的秘诀 Nietzsche advises the secret of enjoying life is to
就是危险地生活 live dangerously.
他享受得都疯掉了 He enjoyed it so much, he went mad.
看看现在这世界吧 Look at the world and tell me
正常人又有什么快乐呢 the pleasures of sanity.
对不起 博士 Excuse me, doctor.
我们能聊一会儿吗？ Would you join me for a moment?
谢谢 Thank you.
我们会达到共识的 We will accomplish this.
我不会让 I will not allow
条条框框来 administrative technicalities
拖延我们 to slow it down.
每个部门都要全力配合 Every agency will jump to follow my order,
否则他们不会好过的 or asses will sting.
用来吊死国家的敌人 And there are no shortages of meat hooks
的可绞架多了 on which to hang enemies of the state.
这将是党卫队负责的行动 This will be an SS operation.
随着战争继续 And as the war goes on,
党卫队的势力会越来越大 the SS will more and more command the agenda,
还会把不愿合作的人 and put marks against the names
都列入黑名单 of the less than cooperative.
你得要作出选择才行 You have a choice to make.
你是知道我尊重 Well, you understand that I respect...
拜托 Please.
你还是得作出你的选择 You will still have to make your choice.
别让像克劳普佛 Do not let a strutting, imbecilic,
那样低能的蠢猪来 porcine prick like Klopfer
替你选择 make it for you.
我不想用威胁的方式 I do not wish to see the bullies,
因为我和很多党卫队的同仁 I admit, we have more than our share of them in the SS,
都很欣赏你 take too much of an interest in you.
欣赏我？ Interest in me?
你不知道吗？ Do you not think?
我所想要的就是 And all I want from this meeting
这次会议能全体通过没有异议 is unanimity and no trouble
把必须要做好的事情做好 getting what has to be done done.
你要是站在我一边 事情就好办多了 With you at my side, so much is possible.
我统计过了 I have done this arithmetic.
劳动力的真正数量要比 The real size of the labor force
数据显示的少一百万 is already a million less than the figures show.
经济利益 The economic considerations
并不是唯一的利益 are not the only considerations, you see.
我可以说他们不是 I'll say they are not.
可你做过推断吗？ Have you done the extrapolations?
朋友 毫无冒犯之意 My friend, with due respect,
我想说 去他妈的推断 may I say fuck the extrapolations?
我希望你了解 I hope you understand
我希望自己能够有点作为 I want to be as useful as I can.
我们得要多沟通才行 Well, we must be in contact.
没错 Exactly.
从他待的地方 From where he sits,
他又闻不到犹太区 he does not have the ghettos or the stink.
散发出的臭味 而且他想从 And he's burglarizing administrative control
总督手里夺权 from the governor general clearly.
高官的特权 Privileges of rank.
我没听到什么紧急情况 I don't hear any urgency.
高官的特权 你爬的越高 越自以为是 Privileges of rank. The higher you go,
越自以为是 the more infallibility is bestowed.
但我不知道有什么可以 All right, but I don't hear
绕过官僚系统的好办法 来解决我们的问题 any cut to bureaucracy solutions, our problems.
你是对的 他不了解我们的苦衷 You're right. He does not have our problems.
屁话！ 什么“高官的特权” Crap, the privileges of rank.
唯一的麻烦就是你们手臂上 All that matters is if you have the SS blood group
的那个党卫队刺青 tattooed under your arm.
那是你们这些人的秘密通行证 That's a secret password for you people.
你乱猜些什么啊？ Oh, what are these suspicions?
我告诉你 I will tell you this.
当霍乱和伤寒席卷犹太区的时候 When cholera hits the ghettos, and typhoid,
当你拉稀拉到脱水 your little tattoos won't protect you
拉到死为止 你那小小的刺青 from shitting your guts out nonstop
根本保护不了你 until you dry up and die.
到那时我们再来谈什么叫“自以为是” Then tell me about infallibility.
那些硬梆梆的纽伦堡乡村 Those little Nuremberg country sausages,
小香肠真好吃 the greasy little ones.
你可以继续吃你的牡蛎 You can keep your fucking oysters.
哦 天啊 那是什么？ Oh, my God, what is that?
你能带一点过来吗？ Can you get them here?
兰格？ You are Lange?
是的 长官 Yes, sir.
你说你枪决的那30000人？ Who were those 30,000 you say you shot?
都是些什么人 When you say, you shot.
在拉脱维亚的里加 In Riga, Latvia.
27800人的死我负有责任 27,800, I have some responsibility for,
还有一些被拉脱维亚人成群杀掉 and stood by with my men and allowed
我的人袖手旁观并默许了 Latvian civilians to kill in mobs.
因为我直接收到了 I receive memos directing the,
一份关于“疏散”犹太人的备忘录 one would say, "evacuation" of Jews,
结果他们就枪决并被深埋有些还活着的 who, shot and buried in soil and corpses,
挣扎着想从尸堆里爬出来 managed to crawl out still alive.
这不太像是战争 是吗？ Not exactly war, is it?
而且毒气室也快了 And gas chambers about to come.
什么毒气室？ What gas chambers?
毒气室？ Gas chambers?
是的 我听到了传闻 I hear rumors, yes.
这不仅仅是一场战争了 This is... more than war.
一定要有什么别的词来形容 Must be a different word for this.
试试“混乱” Try chaos.
是啊 剩下的就是一场争论 Yes, the rest is argument.
对我的专长的诅咒 The curse of my profession.
我也学过法律 I studied law as well.
那你如何将你所学的应用到你从事的工作中去呢？ Well, how do you apply that education to what you do?
它让我不再信任语言 It has made me distrustful of language.
枪杆子说话才算话 A gun means what it says.
我们需要这些讨论吗？ Do we need all this discussion?
他有他的风格 He has his style.
是啊 非常善于说服 Yes, very persuasive.
有问题吗 博士？ Is there a problem, Doctor?
[Chattering]
克里琴格博士来了 Hey, Dr. Kritzinger's coming.
是你老板 站起来 It's your boss. On your feet.
多美的湖啊 不是吗？ Beautiful lake, is it not?
对不起 I'm sorry.
等战争结束了 When the war ends,
我想在这栋房子里住下来 I shall come to live in this house
天天都能观赏湖面 and rise to see that lake every day.
还能梦想美好的事物 And dream comforting things.
我是个梦想家 我想你也是的 I am a dreamer as I think you are.
是的 这是个梦想世界 Yes, it is a dream world.
兰格二级大队长 我能帮助你吗？ Ah, Major Lange, how can I help you?
政治是种肮脏的游戏 Politics is a nasty game.
我认为军人的原则 I think soldiering
是服从命令去做大事 requires the discipline to do the unthinkable,
而政治的技巧则是 and politics requires the skill
让别人来替你做大事 to get someone else to do the unthinkable for you.
但我们需要政治 But we need the politics,
所以我容忍他们 so we put up with them.
至少是现在 At least for now.
是的 Yes.
我们期盼一个更美好的时代 We look forward to a better day.
一个和平的世界 A peaceful world.
德国文化获得胜利的世界 A German culture triumphant.
那是我们的目标 That is what we work for.
我很感激您的话 长官 I appreciate the words, sir.
我们是为国效劳的军人 不是吗？ We are servant soldiers, are we not?
是的 我们就是 Yes, that is what we are.
不错 Indeed.
[Toilet flushing]
你问过他了吗？ Did you ask him?
问他什么？ Ask him what?
问他是不是有犹太血统？ Does he have a little Jewish blood?
没 还没 No, not yet.
他回答的时候告诉我一声 Inform me when he answers.
我所听说的是 That's what I heard.
是他祖母或者祖父 A grandmother or a grandfather.
是他父亲 His father.
这是传闻 That's the rumor.
可如果是真的 And if it is true,
当他回答你的时候会是什么脸色 how happy would he be to tell you?
两天之内把文件给我 HEYDRICH: I want a work document in two days,
如果可能的话 if that is possible.
不要多于30份拷贝 EICHMANN: It will be. No more than 30 copies.
是 长官 只限30份？ Yes, sir. 30, numbered?
是的 速记下来的会议记录 Yes, and the spools, the stenotype record,
必须销毁 have it destroyed.
是 长官 Yes, sir.
把他们都叫进来 Let's get them back in here.
好的 All right.
谁在上面 长官 Who's up there, sir?
克劳普佛博士 Dr. Klopfer.
克里琴格是？ Kritzinger is...?
那位在外面散步的先生 The gentleman outside walking.
去找他 Find him.
长官 Sir.
天变冷了 It has got colder.
多漂亮的小女佣啊 What a pretty little maid.
我希望提醒诸位 HEYDRICH: I would like to remind all of you
我们的元首已经阐明了他的目标 that our Fuhrer annunciates the goals.
我们的任务就是将他的理想化为现实 It is our task to turn his vision to reality.
我们可以在每一个观点上争论 We can debate the how, we can debate the when,
“如何”以及“何时” up to a point.
但我们不能争论“如果” 斯图卡特博士 We cannot debate the if, Dr. Stuckart.
我不是故意要争吵的 I am not purposely contentious.
我也并不是想让你难堪 Nor was I trying to be insulting.
我可以 I would like to try--
我们现在来讨论方法 So, we will now discuss method.
谁愿意发言？ Who would like to speak on this?
到底要谈什么？ So, what is being advocated here?
一部旨在毁灭所有混血儿与德国人 A law dissolving all marriages
之间婚姻的法律 between mixed and German.
干嘛不呢？ Why not?
有法律人士在阻挠 Courts adjust.
我们都知道 不是这回事 As we all do. That is not the point.
你太顽固了 我的朋友 You are too inflexible, my friend.
你很清楚法院会很乐意 You know damn well the courts would be only too happy
摆脱这种问题的 to be rid of the problem.
我只是点明了一个要把 I am pointing out the difficulty
所有犹太人和非犹太人 of casting every Jew and non-Jew
送进绞肉机的问题 into the sausage machine.
如果计划是那样的 And if that's the plan,
那么我希望建立相关的法律机制 I'm asking that some legal framework be built.
那就搞定它吧 跳过几个步骤就可以了 Let's get it done and if we skip a few steps...
跳过几个步骤 Skip a few steps.
当你刨木头的时候 When you plane down a piece of wood,
总有几片刨花飞溅 a few chips go flying.
谁是刨花？犹太人还是法官？ Jews or judges, who are the chips?
我想说的是 I would like to say,
讨论中要 in this discussion,
注意语气 regarding the tone,
首先 你们要放下 first, abandon the misperception you have
斯图卡特博士喜欢犹太人这一错误认知 that Dr. Stuckart has some affection for the Jews.
我确定他不是的而且他的心灵很纯洁 I am sure he does not and his heart is pure.
他相信法律至上 He believes in supremacy of law.
犹太人 无论如何 Jews, in any event,
不久就会从德国消失 will vanish soon enough from Germany.
是的 不过 你的 But, the method, yes, well,
方法 很随意地 you accept casually
将合法的尺度抹去 the obliteration of legal distinctions
转而使用 极端的不可接受的标准 and the use of extreme, inconceivable measures,
这种方法 我重申一遍 that, and I say again,
我们内阁是不会采用的 that our chancellery was assured would not be used.
这就是我们的会议本意 That is where we have come.
一个士兵无法自己决定战斗的地点 A soldier cannot decide where he chooses to fight.
到哪儿了？ Where are we here?
海德里希将军希望您发表一下观点 General Heydrich was inviting your opinions on the methodology.
不错 Indeed.
我可以这样说 I can say this--
你们打算撇开天主教会来 you're going to have your work cut out
进行这项工作 with the Catholic Church,
帝国方面同时也脱离 with the Reich divorcing all those good Catholics,
与天主教势力之外这样会让梵蒂冈的 and that's not gonna make our priests very comfortable,
教士们很不爽的 or the Vatican.
教廷对犹太人没有好感 The Vatican has no love for the Jew.
他们为什么要干涉 Why should they interfere?
新教派别也不会反对的 The Lutherans would not object either.
我同意斯图卡特博士 I agree with Dr. Stuckart.
这不只是短期意识形态 The problems outweigh the short term
方面的问题 ideological satisfaction.
军事需要排第一位 不对吗？ Military necessity comes first, am I wrong?
为什么就不能简单一点？ Why can this not be simpler?
我所代表的司法部 Well, the Ministry of Justice,
将会很高兴地承认这一做法 which I represent, can live with it gladly.
兰格二级大队长 你怎么看 Major Lange, an opinion.
总队长 我只认军令 General, I accept the chain of command.
除此以外没有别的规矩 I have no other gods before it.
其他政治问题 没了 没什么了 The politics of it all, no, nothing.
我们不仅仅是一个军人的国家 We are more than a nation of armies.
我希望是的 I hope.
旅队长 General.
如果斯图卡特博士说我们应该让 If Dr. Stuckart is saying
少数喜欢犹太人的德国人站起来反对我们 we shall turn a few Jew-loving Germans against us,
我会很乐意把他们也全都送走 I would happily throw them all in the same transport.
可惜这种行政决议不是 It is, however, a political decision,
我一个人可以完成的 not mine particularly to make.
你可以退一步 Can you step back
不要今天就决定这些细节吗？ from trying to settle these details today?
有其他部门也想发表意见 Other agencies will want to be heard.
这就是我邻座的聪明之处 Now, that is wisdom from my neighbor.
我想 我赞成绝育 I favor sterilization, I think.
但不要大规模行动 But not wholesale.
海德里西总队长早前提出的方法 干嘛不呢？ What General Heydrich outlined earlier, why not?
X光 注射？ X-rays, injections?
为什么我们要讨论这些理论上的解决方式呢？ Why are we discussing theoretical solutions?
歌德说过理论是灰色的 Goethe said that theories are gray,
而生活之树长青 but that real life is green.
别再喋喋不休了 现实点吧 Stop chattering and be realists here.
我一如既往地坚持 I insist, as I have before,
最好的方式就是最快的方式 that the best way is the quickest way.
把他们彻底净化出我们的土地 Purge them, totally, off our land.
理想中 净化出我们的星球 Ideally, off our planet.
还要为我们的东部地区 And for the eastern territories,
留下健康的劳工 leave us able-bodied workers.
如果要分开 按男女分开就行了 If they are separated, the men from the women,
不包括婴儿 q.e.d., no babies.
剩下的 就像你描述的那样全部疏散 And evacuate the others, as you outlined.
搞定它 Get it done.
很好 我们绕了一圈 All right, we've gone around.
我有了大家的见解 I have your opinions.
我想继续 I want to move on.
把吃的端进来吧 Let's have the food in here.
是的 长官 Yes, sir.
我们可以边吃边继续会议 I wish to keep going. We can eat while we work.
阐明一下我赞同和不赞同的 To clarify what I agree with and what I do not,
我同意博士关于这一方式所产生的 I agree with the doctor about the complications
复杂变化的观点 of all the variations,
但我更赞成发配或 but I favor deportation or,
者“绞肉机” 对吧？ well, sausage making, right?
我听你们中住在德国 I hear talk from some of you
的几个人谈到了劳工 who live here in Germany about labor force.
现实如何呢？ What is the reality?
至少波兰的犹太人 At least for the Polish Jews,
中间几乎没有健康到能担当任何形式的劳工的人 damn few of them are fit for labor of any kind.
你又找不到能干粗活的犹太人 You do not find Jews with dirt under their fingernails,
那劳工怎么来呢？ so who is this labor force?
我们的情况是 What we have
犹太区已经被肮脏和垃圾 are ghettos filled and overfilled
填满得都快要溢出来了 with the scabrous, the rotting.
我们没有食物来喂他们 We do not have the food for them.
他们生病所散发的恶臭连墙都挡不住 The stink of their diseases does not stop at the walls
而你还要再运几千人来给 and you ship them up to us by the thousands
我们应付 to deal with.
我们该怎么办？ What are we to do?
我们没地方安置他们 We have no place to put them.
我们连自己的人都没地方安置 We have no more place to put our own.
我们又不能枪毙320万犹太人 We cannot shoot 3 1/2 million Jews.
我们又不能毒死他们 也不能使用他们 We cannot poison them and we cannot use them.
这位兰格二级大队长和他的手下 You're gonna have Major Lange and his men
采取了特殊手段 come in with their special methods.
而我们还要再来几次里加事件？ How many Rigas do we have to have?
把墙盖高点 Build the wall higher.
我们所要求的 What we are asking
是在你管理人的犹太人把我们淹死之前 is that before you flood us with all of these Jews,
先让我们处理完自己的问题 let us first clean out ours.
清空犹太区之后再来装你的人 Empty our ghettos into whatever you have for them.
军方也是 Military too.
集体枪杀带来了 Mass shootings by our groups
严重的士气问题 create morale problems,
尤其是如果杀的是德籍犹太人的话 especially when the Jew is a German Jew,
他们的思维比俄籍犹太人要好的多 who is intellectually superior to the Russian Jew.
就算有本地居民配合 And even with cooperative elements of local civilians,
集体屠杀还是开了个坏头 mass slaughter leaves a bad taste.
我可以作证 I can so testify.
我们面临在军队处理德籍犹太人时 We've had to deal with the backlash
的抵触问题 when it comes to German ones.
如果你决定兴师动众 And if your method of disposing of all these Jews
使用东线的资源来 diverts military units and rolling stock
转移犹太人的话那 from the eastern front,
这无疑是个愚蠢的选择 then it is a stupid choice.
承认我们在处理自己手上的 Recognizing the priority for ridding ourselves
犹太人时的优先权 of the Jews...
我不是在要优先权 而是简便的处理方法 Not arguing priority, but method and expediency.
对不起 为什么你们就不能枪毙他们？ Why can't you shoot them?
你没听见吗？ Didn't you hear him?
这是我们的士兵们最不想干的事情 It is the worst thing for our soldiers to be doing.
他们都是些妇孺 They are women, they are children,
而军人是有荣誉感的 and soldiers have a sense of honor, sir.
服从命令才有荣誉感 There's plenty of honor in following orders.
你想毛遂自荐吗？ Sir, would you like to volunteer for my group?
乐意之至 Enthusiastically.
我会的 I will.
你不会的 You will not.
一千一百万人 就算只有一半 11 million, even half that, executed in small batches,
如果用梅耶博士 would be asinine to undertake
提到的方式处理 for the reasons Dr. Meyer mentioned.
分批次处决也是及其愚蠢的 时间 部队 装备和弹药 Inefficient use of time, troops, equipment, bullets.
行不通 兰格二级大队长将会认识到 No, as Major Lange will learn,
使用毒气是更经济更隐蔽的办法 using gas is much cheaper and less public.
麻烦你 Please.
T4安乐死计划使用了注射手段 The T-4 euthanasia program has used injections,
但最有效的方法 but most effectively,
最有效的方法 most effectively,
是一氧化碳毒气 a carbon monoxide gas.
从1940年一月开始 我们就在勃兰登堡 We began using it on Polish mental patients
用波兰精神病患者做过实验了 in Brandenburg in January, 1940.
现在 有一个地区已经兴建 Now, an area is constructed that, um,
外观类似澡堂或淋浴室 resembles a shower room or a bath,
实验对象裸体进入 and the subjects are brought in naked,
以为是要洗澡 as though for a shower,
而外面 不锈钢罐 and outside, stainless steel tanks
会注入纯一氧化碳 pump in pure carbon monoxide,
其效果 是 which, well, what it does is...
那个 我有数据 well, I have figures.
在五月 该计划扩大到了哈特汉 In May, this program was extended to Hartheim
而的六月则到了宗纳施坦 and in June, at Sonnenstein.
所以 在1940年上半年 So, in the first 6 months of 1940,
8765人被毒死 8,765 persons were gassed.
到1940年底 共计有26459人 By the end of 1940, a total of 26,459.
到去年八月底 By the end of August last year,
又有35049人 another 35,049.
我们终止了该特别计划 We terminated this particular program, however,
但它持续到九月一日 on September the first.
到最后总共有70273人 So, in the end, 70,273
被此方式毒死 have been gassed by this method.
现在 此时此刻 Now, at this time,
我们开始了高级计划 we began the advanced program...
总督根本就不知道 The general government was not given this information--
继续讲 Keep going.
去年夏季 我们下令改造了 Last summer we ordered the construction
20辆移动毒气卡车 of 20 mobile gassing trucks,
将它们的后部车箱改造为毒气室 using their redirected exhaust back into the chamber.
3辆这种卡车上个月已经开始使用了 3 such trucks have been in use since last month.
但是切姆诺集中营 现名库姆霍夫 At the Chelmno camp, now called Kulmhof...
已经建好了 就在我们鼻子地下 Already constructed, under our noses.
每辆卡车每次可装载40到60名犹太人 In each truck you can get in 40 to 60 Jews at a time.
事实上 卡车装的人越多 它工作起来越快 In fact, the more you have in, the faster it works.
而且 And the, um,
一氧化碳...的效果是 carbon monoxide, what it does is...
尸体呈粉红色 the bodies come out pink.
毒气让他们变成粉红色 The gas turns them pink.
不错的润色啊 It's a nice touch.
既然已经建好了 为什么还要开这个会？ If it is already built, what is this meeting?
干嘛要费这个劲？ Why bother?
制度必须得要运作 HEYDRICH: The system has shown that it works.
这对你很有用 会安顿好的 It will work for you. It is settling in.
这种方法已经说明过了 The method is now defined.
犹太人红着进去粉着出来 The Jews go in red and come out pink.
这是种进步啊 Now, that is progress.
我不该往葡萄酒里掺威士忌的 I should never mix wine with whiskey.
怎么了？ What's the matter?
我想我会没事的 I think I will be all right.
如果你想透透气 Don't make excuses
用不着借口 if you have to leave for a minute.
有点头痛 Sort of a headache.
快点 Hurry.
吃东西吧 Eat.
真他妈可笑 It's fucking ridiculous.
没关系 长官 Not at all, sir.
不该是酒的问题 It could not be the mixing.
雪茄吗？ The cigar?
没事吧？长官 Everything all right, sir?
可能是雪茄 Could be the cigar.
我受不了它们 I could never abide them.
而我父亲还爱嚼它们 And my father would chew them.
他嘴里总是充满了恶心的口水 His mouth was always full of evil juice and pulp.
要是嚼满了 他还会吐出来 It would fill up and he would have to spit.
我把这留给你 长官 I would leave it there, sir.
香烟 它们能让我镇定下来 Cigarettes, now, they calm me down.
可以止吐 Settle my stomach.
它们让我冷静 They calm me down.
问题是 The problem is,
世人总是缺少它们 there are not enough of them in the world.
我们该回去了 对吧？ We should be in there, should we not?
是的 Yes.
长官？ Sir?
这是干净的吗？ Is this clean?
是的 长官 Yes, sir.
给我倒杯水 Let me have a glass of water.
我会给您送去的 I brought some out, sir.
我又没问你 I'm not addressing you.
还有溴铵片 And a bromide tablet of some kind.
饭菜不合胃口吗？ You did not like the food?
我根本就没吃 I did not eat.
我不懂哲学 Well, I know of no philosophy--
哲学扰乱你的观点 Philosophy--that is your argument
在这些寄生虫 when we have to countenance
这些糟蹋着我们的食粮 玷污我们的理想 the suffocating glut of this parasitic people,
控制着我们的货币 consuming our food,
的家伙们断气的时候 contaminating our professions,
我们要沉着面对 controlling our currency.
-这不是真的 -这是你的理念 -None of that is true. -In your philosophy.
也许这就是这些“神的选民”如何被选中的 Perhaps that is what the chosen people were chosen for.
哦 Oh...
不 我道歉 No, I apologize.
你既然来了 就必须给你个说法 You take a position, you deserve a response.
这是个严冬 It is a cold winter.
这场战争 不管它被游行集会 The war, in spite of the rallies
海报还有广播 and the posters and the radio,
描述得多么漫长 艰苦的战争 looks like a longer, harder war.
犹太人的下场都是注定的 The Jews are in the way.
那么我这个被排除在外的小人物 And how can I, one rather
如何来帮助您实现这个 peripheral figure in your grand plan,
宏伟计划呢？ be in your way?
你低估了自己的影响力 You underestimate your influence.
而我没有 I do not.
你是个很难扳倒的对手 You would be a hard man to bring down.
但并不是 不可能 But certainly... not impossible.
你之前说过“要现实点”对吧？ Did I hear you say earlier "be practical"?
对的 Yes.
那么 现在我们就现实一点 Well, then this is the moment to be...
你觉得国家会接受你的理念吗？ Until such time as Germany can afford your philosophy,
是什么来着？ 追捕他们？ which is what, hound them?
榨干他们？剥削他们？ Impoverish them, exploit them?
囚禁他们？ Imprison them?
只要别杀了他们 Just do not kill them,
你真是个高尚的人啊 and you are God's noblest of men.
果然不凡啊 I find that truly remarkable.
坐到桌边来 Sitting again at that table,
我想征求一下你对刚才话题的意见 I will ask for your agreement to what has been proposed.
我必须立刻回答吗？ And I must answer now?
你要么立即回答 要么等会儿回答都一样 的 Oh, you will answer now or you will answer later.
我不会唱反调的 I will not oppose you.
我想要的不止这些 I want more than that.
哦 那是当然 Oh, of course.
很好 Good.
我们相互理解了 We understand each other.
我可以讲个故事吗 May I tell you a story?
好听的故事？ Ah, a good one?
真实的故事 A true one.
哦 Oh.
讲给我听吧 Tell me the story.
是我的一个朋友告诉我的 Well, it was told to me by a friend of mine.
怎么回事？ Yes...
他认识一个人 NEUMANN: Do you realize, sir,
长官你知道四年计划 how much thought and effort
里包含了多少想法和努力吗？ has gone into the four-year plan?
一定很多 Mmm, plenty, I am sure.
戈林元帅说的很清楚 Reichsmarshall Goring is very clear.
战争的需要意味着 The necessities of the war
解决犹太问题必须暂缓 mean that the Jew question has to wait.
现在有新指令了 There has been a new directive.
新指令根本没说优先权的问题 New directives says nothing about changing the priorities.
-你指什么？ -不是我 -It is implied. -Not by me.
为什么事事都得听你们的？ Why does this have to be your way or nothing?
我指党卫队 I mean the SS.
你现在知道了 Ah, now you understand.
我不知道 I do not.
你知道的 You have stated it.
当我向戈林元帅汇报 When I report to the Reichsmarshall...
有了新的指令了 There has been a new directive.
必须由党卫队来指挥 It has to be as the SS directs.
一艘船容不下两位船长 You cannot sail a ship with two captains.
元首才是船长 Well, the Fuhrer is the captain.
是的 但他把指挥权给了海德里希 And for this, he has given Heydrich the command.
就连戈林也是 Even Goring has given it.
你辞职吧 Resign yourself.
辞职？ Resign?
你来以身作则啊 Yourself to how it is going to be done.
一个士兵无法决定 A soldier cannot decide--
好好 我走 Yeah, spare me.
共产党有 A Communist by definition
他们的根本缺陷 has a defect of reason.
朋友 俄国人才不是共产党呢 The Russian is not a Communist, my friend.
俄国人才不管谁来掌权 The Russian does not give a damn who runs things.
我和他们一起住过 I have lived amongst them.
俄国人只要有瓶伏特加可以灌 The Russian only cares he has a bottle of vodka to suck
有只牲口可以操 and some form of domestic animal life to fuck,
他们就会很开心地在屎堆里过一辈子 then he will happily sit in shit his whole life.
这就是他们的政治 That is his politics.
我了解那些人 I know those people.
这就是区别 That is the distinction.
和犹太人的区别 I absolve the Jews of that.
-克里琴格说了什么？ -他讲了个故事 -What did Kritzinger say? -He told me a story.
什么故事？ Which was?
等会儿再说 他已经表态了 也舒服点了 He made his point, he'll sleep at night.
你什么都没吃？ Nothing to eat, General?
没有 我们等会儿有时间再吃吧 No. We'll see if there's time when we finish.
我们得来点儿音乐啊 那房子里好像有架钢琴的 We should've had some music. There must be a piano in the building.
一曲三重唱更好 Have a string trio.
这将增加氛围 It would add to the experience.
是的 我的失误 抱歉 Yes, I should have. I'm sorry.
美食 美酒 却没有音乐？ Food, wine, brandy, no music?
来一小段绝妙的贝多芬晚期作品如何？ A little lovely late Beethoven?
对不起 I'm sorry.
还是实际一点吧 It would not have been practical.
是的 Yes.
我在开玩笑 I'm teasing.
我猜你们在克拉科夫吃不上什么好的 I take it that you do not get good food up in Krakow.
如果全柏林的人都像你这么能吃 If all Berlin eats like you,
难怪我们会缺粮 no wonder we have shortages.
这话是墨索里尼说的吗？ HEYDRICH: Was it Mussolini who said,
战争显示出人最高贵的一面 war reveals man's nobler character?
都准备...感觉好点了吗？ Are we ready... ah, feeling better?
是的 谢谢 Thank you, yes.
吃坏东西了？ Something you ate?
我很好 I'm fine...
是雪茄 ...the cigar.
雪茄？ The cigar?
没想到 Unexpected.
那现在我们禁止抽雪茄 We will forgo cigars.
只是限制一下大家 That should be no great trial.
刚才我们谈到哪里了？ Now, where did we stop?
最后是弗雷斯勒博士的发言 The last remark was by General Freisler,
“犹太人红着进去粉着出来” "The Jews go in red and come out pink.
“这是种进步” That is progress."
是一氧化碳的副作用 HEYDRICH: Yes, the side effect of C.O. Gas.
关于这一点 还有更多的话要说 Now, there is more to say about that.
已经开始研究以便寻找更快 Studies are moving for something even faster,
更经济的各种致死方法 other faster and cheaper gases that could be used.
比如氰化物 Cyanide is being tested.
还有电刑 Various forms... electrocution too.
是的 有一项研究正在进行 Yes, right, there is a research being done
看看电刑是否会更便捷 to see whether electrocution can even more,
电刑 effectively,
更安静地 quietly, put an end,
使整个过程结束 a period to the end of the sentence.
另外 一辆卡车每小时 Say, one truckload an hour,
包括装载 including putting the contents in,
发动卡车 卸载尸体 running the engines, removing the contents,
清理污物 cleaning the inevitable soiling,
如果24小时运转 on a 24-hour schedule,
20辆一次就是1440人 1,440 a day times 20 trucks.
一天就是28800人 20 trucks, that's 28,800 a day.
一年就是10512000人 10,512,000 in one year.
但是我不能想象这些卡车可以全天候运转 But I cannot imagine you could operate consistently
更别说善后的事情了 at that rate, not to mention disposal.
毒气车只是短期解决方案 Gas vans are a short term field solution.
我们有三座带永久性毒气室 We have 3 camps where
的集中营即将开始运作 permanent gas chambers will be operational.
什么？ I'm sorry?
是的 我正要提到贝尔泽克 索比堡和特雷布林卡... Yes, I was about to mention Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka
正好霍夫曼将军不舒服 before General Hofmann was taken ill.
雪茄没问题 It was a fine cigar.
基本上 集中营是属于首要考虑的 HEYDRICH: Ultimately, the camps will be the primary locations.
去年夏天 帝国行政总监希姆莱 Yes, now, last summer Reichsfuhrer Himmler
让我去视察一座位于上西里西亚的集中营 asked me to visit a camp up in Upper Silesia
叫做奥斯威辛 它所处的位置 called Auschwitz, which is very well isolated
离铁路枢纽很近 and close to significant rail access.
我们要把其变为钢筋混凝土结构 We are turning that camp into a major center,
的主要营区 solid structures,
你的犹太劳工就 and here's where your Jewish labor
要运送到那儿去 纽曼先生 comes into play here, Neumann.
由犹太人将集中营 The Jews haul the bricks
一砖一瓦建起来 and they build the buildings themselves.
当竣工之后 我们预计 And when the structures are complete,
它每小时可以处理2500人 we expect to be able to process 2,500 an hour.
是每小时 不是每天 Not a day, an hour.
这个数字看起来就好多了 And those numbers look a lot better.
每小时2500人？ 2,500 an hour?
2500人？ 2,500?
一天24小时 就是60000人 At 24 hours a day, that is 60,000.
每天60000人 60,000 each day.
那就是每年两千九百万人 That's 21,900,000 Jews a year,
如果他们有这么多人的话 if ever there were that many.
我们还在建造 We are also constructing the means of disposal,
用于善后的 which will obviously depend
焚化设施 upon the process of combustion.
是的 其实就是大规模 Yes, it will be industrial in nature,
工业用焚化炉 large, commercial gas-fed ovens,
什么都不会留下 no residue to speak of.
每天有60000犹太人 60,000 Jews every day
化为青烟 go up in smoke.
我们可以做到 We can achieve that.
想象一下 Imagine.
流水线！ Assembly line!
是的 就是聪明的美国人发明的点子 Yes, the clever Americans have shown us that,
而我们把它变成 but we've put it to the purpose
胜利的德国版 of a triumphant German vision.
胜利的德国版 Triumphant German vision.
以下是我给你们的命令 So, this is my command to you here.
携起手来 你们的人员 你们的部门 Link arms, your units, your ministries,
发挥你们的才智 贡献你们的精力 apply your intelligence, apply your energies.
流水线正在等待 The machinery is waiting.
喂饱它！ Feed it.
把他们送上火车 Get them on the trains.
让火车飞奔 Keep the trains rolling
历史将会因我们在此 and history will honor us
在如此之短的时间内 for having the will and the vision
为人类种群的净化和进步做出的贡献 to advance the human race to greater purity
致以崇高的敬意 in a space of time so short
连达尔文都会感到惊讶 Charles Darwin would be astonished.
我想此刻会议可以告一段落了 Now, I want to bring this meeting to a close.
还有一个问题 The one matter we have had to postpone
关于哪个级别的混血儿 is the point at which
算作德国人或犹太人的问题 mixed becomes wholly German or wholly Jew.
这很快就会解决 That line will be drawn very quickly.
我不是想重写你的法律 I am not trying to rewrite your law,
我只是在强调元首的原则 but I am invoking Fuhrer's princip.
他的话凌驾于所有法律之上 His word is above all written law.
那么 还有谁有意见要摆上台面的吗？ So, do we have any disputes left to face here,
关于我的权威性？还是我们通过的议题？ either with my authority or with what we have agreed?
旅队长？ HEYDRICH: General?
我们来让达尔文惊讶吧 Let us astonish Charles Darwin.
我赞成 I second the motion.
这是我们最重要的战争 It is our most important war.
先生？ HEYDRICH: Sir?
我们刚刚讨论的是 We are just discussing the inevitable
不可避免的事情而它在 and trying to bring it all about
一个人的领导下以最现实的情况发生了 in the most practical way under one command.
我对此没有异议 I have no dispute with that.
我了解现实 I understand the realities.
我了解到 With the understanding--
而且无疑 And indeed,
我也支持 count on my support.
我了解到该决议 With the understanding that consideration
采纳了我的建议 will be given to my proposal,
是的 我通过 yes, sure, proceed.
我遵从党卫队的指示 I defer to the SS.
如果要做 就要花力气去做 If you are to do it, then force-feed it,
要迅速 speed it along.
我们的情况 例如华沙 Our situation, such as in Warsaw,
非常艰难 快吃不消了 is difficult, edging towards disastrous.
谢谢 Thank you.
是啊 我还能说什么呢？ Oh, yes, what can I say?
我的热情是无限的 My enthusiasm is boundless.
很显然 Obviously.
什么？ Sorry?
我相信我的热情也很清楚 也很显然 是的 I trust my enthusiasm is clear, is apparent, yes.
纽曼？ HEYDRICH: Neumann?
我想知道是不是还能留一些劳工 I would like to know that adequate supplies of labor
尤其是熟练工 will still be available--
就事论事 兰格二级大队长？ HEYDRICH: On a case-by-case basis. Major Lange?
是的 Yes.
我希望梅耶博士的要求 I would like to urge that speed
可以尽快达到 that Dr. Meyer asked of you.
波兰人不像德国人那样可靠 The Poles are not as disciplined a population as we Germans.
我会把我们的意向汇报给总督的 And I will report the will of the group to the governor general.
他会意识到我是在减轻他的负担 He will understand that I'm relieving him of a burden.
旗队长？ Colonel?
我十分赞成并希望尽快开始 I thoroughly approve and am anxious to start.
我期待这与你和你的部门合作 I look forward to working with your office
一级大队长 and yours, colonel.
越快越好 The sooner the better.
书记员 总队长 The note taking, general.
我想我们现在不需要他了 Yes, I think we can now dispense with him.
整个会议都做了速记 Many of you have been taking notes 1896 during this conference.
我给各位几天时间阅读它 I give you the rest of the day to memorize them.
然后就烧掉 They are to be burned.
艾克曼一级大队长将会准备 Colonel Eichmann will prepare
节选过的会议纪要 a discreet transcript of this meeting.
你们每个人都会拿到一份副本 You will each receive a copy.
可以给上级看 It may be shown to superiors,
但不可以给下级看 but to no one at a lower level.
我会通过艾克曼一级大队长 All comments from above are to be sent
在上面标注 in the most privileged way
最权威的解释 to me through Colonel Eichmann.
很好 Good.
我们的会议结束了 We have accomplished something.
我感谢诸位 I thank all of you gentlemen.
希特勒万岁 Heil Hitler.
希特勒万岁 希特勒万岁 希特勒万岁 Heil Hitler! Heil Hitler! Heil Hitler!
这儿还有很多吃的 请随意 HEYDRICH: There is plenty of food left for those of you, please.
等几分钟 来吧 HEYDRICH: I have a few minutes. Come.
让他走吧 Leave him alone.
他的元首骗了他 我想他该了解情况了 His Fuhrer lied to him. I think he got the message.
总队长 就几句话 General... just a word.
过来 In here.
停下！ 停下！ EICHMANN: Stop it... stop it!
你！ You!
你在干什么？你是个军人！ What are you doing? You're in uniform!
对不起 长官 胡闹就这么开始了 I'm sorry, sir. It just seemed to happen.
作为军人 Not in uniform.
不要任何借口 Nothing ever just happens.
你要愿意 If you prefer,
我们可以送你去俄国前线 we can send you to the Russian front.
现在 把车弄干净！ Now, clean off these cars!
你今晚就走？ Are you leaving tonight?
是的 Yes.
不在柏林多呆一晚？ What, not another night in Berlin?
我可没你那么闲 长官 You have nothing to do, sir. I have.
我必须说 你到最后让我很吃惊 斯图卡特博士 I must say, you surprised me at the end, Dr. Stuckart.
我不是故意的 STUCKART: Not my intention.
把打字纸带留下给我 Leave the paper tapes with me.
明早在我办公室 Tomorrow morning we'll begin
我们再开始摘抄 the transcription in my office,
不过先把它留给我 but leave the tapes with me now.
全都要吗 长官？ You want all the tapes, sir?
对 全都要 Yes, all of them.
斯图卡特博士的车！ SOLDIER: Dr. Stuckart's car!
你不舒服？ Are you unwell?
晚安 斯图卡特博士 Good night, Dr. Stuckart.
我的车来了 Well, my car.
霍夫曼旅队长的车 SOLDIER: General Hofmann's car!
博士 Doctor.
现在莫斯科已经是晚上了 It is night in Moscow already.
过会儿 这里也要天黑了 Soon it will be dark here.
你说我们还能见到 Do you think we will ever see
生命中的曙光吗？ the dawn in our lifetime?
春天就快了 我们还会生龙活虎的 Come spring, we'll be on the move again.
别灰心 博士 Keep your spirits up, doctor.
总督已经被 The governor general has specifically been told
明确地告知 that we would be the first area,
当疏散开始之后 the first to have our ghettos emptied,
我们的犹太区 the Jews evacuated.
会被首先清空 可能 The possible epidemic--
我了解情况 你不用重复 I know the conditions. You need not repeat them.
但你们的消息是错误的 But as to the promise, you are wrong.
首先是德国 The first to be cleansed is Germany.
后然轮到你们 德国排第一 Then you, Germany first.
官僚主义 The bureaucratic struggles--
我想你们没搞清 这是我负责的行动 I do not think you understand this is my operation.
不是官僚主义 这不是故意刁难 No bureaucracy and no bureaucrat with his nose in the rule book
你们的什么官僚主义 and his hand on his cock will slow it down.
我们几天内就将把犹太人运走 不是几周 We will be moving Jews in days, not weeks.
如果有问题只可能是火车晚点 You can start writing up your train schedules.
舒伯特的C大调五重奏 Ah, Schubert's Quintet in C Major.
慢板会让人心碎的 The adagio will tear your heart out.
告诉总督让他等我的电话 Tell the governor general to expect my call.
这对你们的问题有帮助吗？ Have we helped your problem?
是的 我想是的 Yes, I hope so.
很好 你呢 先生？ Good, then. You, sir?
我想火车不会有问题的 I am sure trains will be available.
还有什么事？ Anything else?
您非常有耐心 You have been very patient.
别指望这个 Don't count on it.
回克拉科夫一路顺风 Have a good ride to Krakow.
谢谢 Thank you.
干得好 一级大队长 会议很好 Well done, colonel. Fine meeting.
谢谢 Thank you.
也谢谢你 Thank you, as well.
我很羡慕你的组织能力 I admire your gift for organization.
这次会议非常有效 The meeting was very economical.
谢谢 Thank you.
现有我饿了 Now I am hungry.
你们中的任何一个认为 Could it happen, do either of you think,
这是我们的最终的解决办法吗 that we would have that final solution?
一年之后 That a year from now
犹太人会从大陆上消失吗？ there wouldn't be a Jew left on the continent?
只要我们动手 怎么不会？ That we control? Why not?
你喝酒吗？艾克曼 Do you drink, Eichmann?
是的 长官 Yes, sir.
你喝醉过吗？ Are you ever drunk?
有时 From time to time.
好 那么 Well, then,
他妈的喝上一杯 take a fucking drink.
我还在值勤呢 长官 Well, I am on duty, sir.
那这就是命令 Well then, it's an order.
谢谢 长官 Thank you, sir.
再给我讲讲那些粉红色的尸体 And tell us again about the pink bodies.
长官 我看还是算了 Oh, well, sir, I'd rather not.
那些声音 那些惨叫 The sounds, the screams.
他又要晕倒了 He will faint again.
我没有晕倒 I did not faint.
只是身体上有些不适应 I had a physical symptom.
你要给我讲什么故事来着？ What was the story you were going to tell me?
故事？ The story?
克里琴格 Kritzinger.
是 他说有个他认识了 Yes, he told me a story about a man
一辈子的人 he'd known all his life.
一个少年时代的朋友 A boyhood friend.
他恨他的父亲 他母亲对他很好 This man hated his father, loved his mother fiercely.
他父亲却总是打他 The mother was devoted to him,
羞辱他 还剥夺了 but the father used to beat him,
他的继承权 demeaned him, disinherited him.
总之 这一切都持续到这个人成年 Anyway, this friend grew to manhood
当他30岁的时候 and he was still in his 30s
他母亲死了 when the mother died.
一直都保护他 照顾着他的母亲 This mother, who had nurtured and protected him.
死了 She died.
这个人看着她下葬 The man stood as they lowered her casket and
并想哭 tried to cry,
但哭不出来 but no tears came.
而他父亲却活了很久 The man's father lived to a very extended old age.
到儿子50岁的时候才死 Withered away and died when the son was in his 50s, I think,
在父亲的葬礼上 and at the father's funeral,
大家惊讶地发现 much to his son's surprise,
儿子控制不住自己的眼泪 he could not control his tears.
他嚎啕大哭 He was wailing, sobbing.
非常悲伤 He was apparently inconsolable.
甚至失落 Lost, even.
这就是克里琴格告诉我的故事 That was the story Kritzinger told me.
我不明白 I don't understand.
不吗？ No?
这个人穷其一生来 The man had been driven his whole life
憎恨他的父亲 by hatred of his father.
当母亲死的时候 只是一个损失 When the mother died, that was a loss.
当父亲死了 When the father died,
当他的恨意没有对象了 when the hate had lost its object,
那么这个人的生命也就空荡荡了 then the man's life was empty.
完了 Over.
有意思 Interesting.
这是克里琴格的警告 That was Kritzinger's warning.
警告什么？ What?
我们不该恨犹太人？ That we should not hate the Israelites?
不 警告我们不该让自己的生命太过充实 No, that it should not so fill our lives
要不当他们都死光的时候 that when they are gone,
我们自己也没有活下去的意义了 we have nothing left to live for.
所以讲了这个故事 So says the story.
我才不会怀念他们呢 I will not miss them.
时候到了 Time.
你什么时候会 You're going to take me up
带我坐坐你的飞机 in that plane of yours sometime.
是的 我们应该这样做 Yes, we should do that.
只是不能在饭后开 Not right after you have eaten.
周五吧 Friday.
会准备好的 Everything will be prepared.
一份副本 我来编辑 您来批准 EICHMANN: One working copy edited by me for your approval.
总共30份副本 30 copies numbered,
没有其他记录 保证完成 no other records, I guarantee.
很好 Good.
你真的很懂怎么搞聚会 You certainly know how to throw a party.
谢谢 Thank you.
再见 Shalom.
让你心碎吗？ Does it tear your heart out?
太美了 长官 Beautiful, sir.
我就搞不懂怎么会有人喜欢 I have never understood the passion
舒伯特这种无病呻吟的维也纳废柴 for Schubert's sentimental Viennese shit.
艾克曼一级大队长 NARRATOR: Colonel Eichmann carefully edited
仔细编辑了会议记录 the stenographic record of the conference.
分发的副本在与会者 Copies were distributed to the participants
阅读之后即被销毁 to be read and then destroyed.
海德里希总队长飞回了他位于 General Heydrich flew back to his headquarters
捷克斯洛伐克的办公室 in Czechoslovakia,
在恐怖的几周之后 where in a few terrible weeks,
他获得了绰号：布拉格屠夫 he had earned the nickname "The Butcher of Prague."
在春季 In the spring,
两名捷克爱国者从一架英国轰炸机 two Czech patriots trained to assassinate him
空降试图刺杀他 and dropped from a British bomber,
他们成功的重创了他 succeeded in wounding him.
作为报复 数千名捷克人 In reprisal, thousands of Czechs
被逮捕并被枪决 were rounded up and shot.
海德里希的伤口感染 Heydrich's wounds grew infected,
他陷入了昏迷并最终死去 he fell into a coma, and died.
而艾克曼作为海德里希在犹太事务方面的代表 Eichmann, as Heydrich's deputy for Jewish affairs,
留了下来继续完成他们在万赛开始的事业 was left to finish what they had begun at Wannsee.
他将此视为一种荣誉 He considered it a matter of honor.
海因里希.穆勒 中央保安局四处处长 盖世太保 战争结束后不知所踪 1945年4月29日 他最后一次现身于希特勒的地堡
格哈德.克劳普佛 1945年被捕 后因证据不足被释放 后来成为一名税务顾问 死于1987年
威尔海姆.克里琴格 1945年被捕 成为战犯。 在纽伦堡 他宣布自己为纳粹暴行感到羞愧 死于1947年。
奥托.霍夫曼 中央种族和移民局局长 1945年被捕 判刑25年 1951年被释放 成为一名商务文员 死于1982年
乔治.莱布朗特 成为美国文化研究所坐上宾 1945年被捕 后因证据不足被释放 死于1982年。
阿尔弗雷德.梅耶 1945年春自杀
威尔海姆.斯图卡特 1945年被捕 1949年被释放 1955年死于交通事故
马丁.卢瑟 因密谋反对他的上司冯.里宾特洛甫 1944年被关入萨克森豪森集中营 1945年死于心脏病
埃里希.纽曼 1945年被捕 后因证据不足被释放 死于1948年。
鲁道夫.兰格 1945年2月在波兰波兹南的一次行动中阵亡
约瑟夫.布勒 1945年被捕 被判犯有危害波兰人民罪 1948年8月被枪决于波兰克拉科夫
卡尔. 尚伽茨 中央保安局四处副处长 盖世太保 1945年被捕 被英国军事法庭以未经上级授权的 恐怖计划定罪 于1946年2月被枪决。
罗兰德.弗雷斯勒 死于1945年2月柏林突袭
阿道夫. 艾克曼 犹太人事务办公室 盖世太保 1960年在阿根廷被以色列特工抓捕 后被判危害人类罪 1962年5月在耶路撒冷被处以绞刑。
1947年美国调查人员在德国外交部档案中 发现了马丁.卢瑟的万湖会议记录的副本 这是唯一幸存的关于此次会议的记录